We need Melee strong again. Vote yes or no

[Thulsadoom]

Weird. I'm on my 5th or maybe 6th consecutive melee DPS live currently and I don't have those problems. Maybe you need to up the difficulty to where your casters aren't one-shotting everything?

I run low to mid reaper difficulty while leveling the melee toon up and run 10-skull at cap. Melee do just fine.

Your on Khyber are you not? How are new people enjoying the game if they are on melee character and a caster is one shotting everything? I play R10 and never lead in kills. Only hand wrap monk could possibly lead in kills over a caster. When is the last time you seen a Tempest Ranger lead in kills in a R10 as an example.

 

[Thulsadoom]

Just Dev's hate melee and about 70% players are casters or range so melee are in deep swamp

Mostly everyone is ranged or caster becasuse they are overpoered

 

[Thulsadoom]

Paladins have crazy DPS right now-SWF pally can both push 500 MP sustainably, and shoot up way higher than that. TWF pally is one of the better non shifter DPS in the game, and brings way more utility with it. KoTC is a very very good tree already.

IMO, paladins could use a slight HP buff or an improvement to SacDef capstone, but those aren’t really melee considerations.

This is only one class with one fighting style, as a whole on melee trees and classes what is your opinion?

 

[Tianblade]

Handwraps Monks need love

 

[Kimbere]

Your on Khyber are you not? How are new people enjoying the game if they are on melee character and a caster is one shotting everything? I play R10 and never lead in kills. Only hand wrap monk could possibly lead in kills over a caster. When is the last time you seen a Tempest Ranger lead in kills in a R10 as an example.

No. I'm on Orien.

I also have a 3rd life qstaff melee flavor build toon that wears mostly Ravenloft gear because I'm too lazy to farm up a whole new set of min/max'd gear for an alt. I run in R10s at cap with guildies while I'm leveling my main. It doesn't lead kill counts obviously, but considering I'm in groups with multi-pletionists, it does just fine. It traps, it gets a non-insignificant number of kills, and doesn't die much more than the other squishies in the group.

And now we get to the meat of the problem. If you think only a wraps monk can do well in R10, all I can tell you is that the current state of melee power isn't the problem.

Additionally, you should stop moving the goalposts. First it was "melee need more power!". Now it's "Tempest Rangers need more power!"? Or is it, "Casters ruin new players fun!"?

 

[Kimbere]

Mostly everyone is ranged or caster becasuse they are overpoered

No. They're just easy.

 

[Br4d]

No. They're just easy.

Easy will run the meta every time.

Inquisitive is all about spamming fire at range and killing stuff before it gets close. Because of the way Inquisitive works this is an effective AoE.

Casters are 90% about spamming AoE spells at range and 10% about CCing packs. Stuff effectively dies before it is in range to do damage most of the time.

Now melees can AoE also but they need to get up close and personal to do that and there are only so many step abilities that close quickly.

Again, this is not about high reapers. High reapers mean bupkus to most of the players. This is about the instances that most of the player base will run on the difficulties they will run them. In those instances melee essentially have no place because what they offer is not valuable to the typical group.

 

[Fhrek]

I first started the game I rolled a human fighter thinking it would be a good way to get to know the game. At character creation, fighters are listed as "Easy" in terms of solo ability, so this made sense. It was terrible. I then tried human Paladin because the character creation screen says they are "Very Easy" in terms of solo ability.

Those are things that Devs need to clean up and reformulate, those tips are traps to new players for sure.

All the "guidance" on the character creation screens and pre-planned builds are useless.

I agree at certain degree, but useless isn't the word, outdated is more in line. 15 years ago those tips at character creation were accurate, was pretty challenging to play solo Rogue or Arcane Casters. Melee, Ranger and Divine casters were pretty easy to get going.

 

[Hobgoblin]

This statement proves you don't run high reaper. JUST having high hps isn't all that matters, for any class.

jeez dude. your talking like you only run r10s and push raids.... you obviously havnt put the time in to discuss this situation like getting reaper wings on hardcore on a melee or anything....


/s

 

[Kimbere]

Easy will run the meta every time.

Inquisitive is all about spamming fire at range and killing stuff before it gets close. Because of the way Inquisitive works this is an effective AoE.

Casters are 90% about spamming AoE spells at range and 10% about CCing packs. Stuff effectively dies before it is in range to do damage most of the time.

Now melees can AoE also but they need to get up close and personal to do that and there are only so many step abilities that close quickly.

Again, this is not about high reapers. High reapers mean bupkus to most of the players. This is about the instances that most of the player base will run on the difficulties they will run them. In those instances melee essentially have no place because what they offer is not valuable to the typical group.

If they choose to run a difficulty level where other players can faceroll the keyboard and kill everything before they get to it as a melee, that's their choice. Choices have consequences. Ditto for who they chose to group with.

This is essentially like joining a card game where the rules say you get to draw 1 card per round. We all know what the rules are, yet inevitably some people would sit around complaining that they lose because they can't draw 3 cards per round instead of 1. The rest of us just just focus on getting better at the game using 1 card per round.

 

[Br4d]

If they choose to run a difficulty level where other players can faceroll the keyboard and kill everything before they get to it as a melee, that's their choice. Choices have consequences. Ditto for who they chose to group with.

This is essentially like joining a card game where the rules say you get to draw 1 card per round. We all know what the rules are, yet inevitably some people would sit around complaining that they lose because they can't draw 3 cards per round instead of 1. The rest of us just just focus on getting better at the game using 1 card per round.

This is just being completely oblivious to the situation most players deal with in DDO.

It's an unfortunate consequence of the decision that SSG made to shift the meta towards a higher target that most players ultimately would not reach.

I'm going to double down and say that this decision is the primary reason that DDO has remained a small niche game with 1 or 2% of the player base of the AAA titles.

What's amazing of course is that any title named Dungeons and Dragons Online is in this situation. You have to be really bad at marketing and development to wind up where DDO is right now.

 

[Kimbere]

This is just being completely oblivious to the situation most players deal with in DDO.

It's an unfortunate consequence of the decision that SSG made to shift the meta towards a higher target that most players ultimately would not reach.

I'm going to double down and say that this decision is the primary reason that DDO has remained a small niche game with 1 or 2% of the player base of the AAA titles.

What's amazing of course is that any title named Dungeons and Dragons Online is in this situation. You have to be really bad at marketing and development to wind up where DDO is right now.

Yeah, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that, by their very nature, real-time MMOs are basically nothing like turn-based pen and paper RPGs...

To put it another way, my wife loves the sci-fi and fantasy shows and movies and watches all of them with me. She's also seen me play MMOs with the same monsters, magic, etc. as the shows for years. She knows what MMOs are and how they work, yet her interest in playing any of them = zero. Ditto for her interest in reading any of the books like Tolkien, Robert Jordan, etc. She prefers to read murder mysteries and crime dramas.

 

[Guntango]

What's amazing of course is that any title named Dungeons and Dragons Online is in this situation. You have to be really bad at marketing and development to wind up where DDO is right now.

Unlike Chess marketing?

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

Monks can have easily above 100 Wisdom. Str also can go very high. Dex I dunno but I assume also easy to build up 90+. Somehow Int based Melees cannot get over 90 wit all the extra racial stat points etc. Or at least somehow I cant reach that Int lvl. Got +8 tome, completionist feat, all the Int racials (except completionist) Enhancement + Insightful + Quality. Got 79 out of reaper. Can use pots for stacking and alchemical bonuses which is 5 more Int. Remnant Int pot doesnt stack, dont ask why.
Here is my build: https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...f-tank-a-melee-artificer-for-r8-questing.373/

I play a couple of other Melees too like a Puss bard, Fvs/Mnk stick build. With the Stick build which is Wisdom based got no Dire charge DC issues at all even in r10.

I did not mention the obvious (dodge, concealment, incoporeal or spell absorb)

Understand my POV in general and for solo play. What you can do with a caster (for example soloing r8-10s) is extremely hard on any melee.

First- thank you for posting the build you are playing. That is greatly helpful.

I'm a macrotech/inquis/arti right now- but I'm ranged not melee and haven't capped and geared yet. Maybe I'll ETR it before I swap to my next push raid build to see how melee goes. Here's a few questions about your build:

• Why did you T5 in renegade vs vistani?
• Are you able to get tactical detonation to land?
• Helpless damage seems a bit low.
• What's your doublestrike at?

Was there one team that had two melee?

Our guild is just starting to push R10 raids, but we had 5 melees in Baba. I think your mileage on melees in the party mix will vary depending on the raid you're pushing.

 

[Rub-A-Dub-Dub]

Was there one team that had two melee?

Shroud R10 has been 4 manned by 2 melees, DC caster, and 0 ranged or nuker.

Strahd R10 4 manned by same composition + one tank, and 0 ranged or nuker.

Baba R10 4 manned by same party.

Deathwyrm R10 same party.

Mark of Death R10 2 man Melee + Dc caster.

Your turn. Go!

 

[YeeboF]

I think melee are fine, and that casters are incredibly annoying to play until your gear is pretty closed to maxed out. If you aren't hitting DC targets, mobs tend to take 1/2 to 0 damage from most of your spells. You also need to be stacking multiple types of spellpower or your damage isn't all that impressive even when mobs don't save. That all also assumes that either mobs aren't resisting your spells completely due to immunity, or you are high enough to have gotten a resistance breaker that's always on.

Martial ranged depends a heck of a lot on what you are playing and in what level range you are talking about. For example, Inq. is incredibly strong for levelling but drops off a lot at the cap. Bows just the opposite.

Melee on the other hand is consistent. A well built melee plays just fine from 1 to the cap, and from life 1 on.

But no-one wants to hear that. The running meme is that melee is all but useless, and that from life and level 1 on any random poorly built caster can clear rooms on R10 using only whatever randgen they stumble across.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I think melee are fine, and that casters are incredibly annoying to play until your gear is pretty closed to maxed out. If you aren't hitting DC targets, mobs tend to take 1/2 to 0 damage from most of your spells. You also need to be stacking multiple types of spellpower or your damage isn't all that impressive even when mobs don't save. That all also assumes that either mobs aren't resisting your spells completely due to immunity, or you are high enough to have gotten a resistance breaker that's always on.

Martial ranged depends a heck of a lot on what you are playing and in what level range you are talking about. For example, Inq. is incredibly strong for levelling but drops off a lot at the cap. Bows just the opposite.

Melee on the other hand is consistent. A well built melee plays just fine from 1 to the cap, and from life 1 on.

But no-one wants to hear that. The running meme is that melee is all but useless, and that from life and level 1 on any random poorly built caster can clear rooms on R10 using only whatever randgen they stumble across.

how dare you.



bringing logic onto the internet?


Have you no shame sir?

 

[Fhrek]

casters are incredibly annoying to play until your gear is pretty closed to maxed out

Word!

Yes, is a breeze to level up, do Epic past lifes... but Reaper Legendary content without been DCs maxed out is of the table.

 

[Dman1970]

Make AC of heavy armor actually mean something in high level stuff, even reapers. Give tanks something to be able to really take a hit of a big boss in a raid other than 5 million hp and 50k PRR ( exaggerated I know, done to make a point) so they are really the tank everyone would expect in D&D. Also, why make it so punishing movement wise when you wear heavy armor? In the real world, plate armor is actually fitted to someone and without a helm, you can actually move very well. Make dodge really viable. The whole misconception you can't move in armor is misguided. You CAN move very well in armor, though it does restrict some things. I'll add one video about this, though the one I really wanted was a man in full plate armor minus the helm and he did a gymnastic tumbling run, flips and all.

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

Make AC of heavy armor actually mean something in high level stuff, even reapers. Give tanks something to be able to really take a hit of a big boss in a raid other than 5 million hp and 50k PRR ( exaggerated I know, done to make a point) so they are really the tank everyone would expect in D&D.

Other than HP to absorb the hit, methods to avoid the hit (IE: dodge, incoporeal, et.c) or mechanics to negate some of the damage (IE: prr, barb damage reduction, etc.)... what else do you expect them to implement?