When are the devs gonna fix Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny:

[Lazuli]

It could keep the caster stuff but those items should not come at the expense of having enough good stuff for the non-caster (and vice versa). Right now there is insufficient good stuff for either casters or melee to make this their primary tree with too many items being specific to one or the other style. And then there is weird which actually locks out non and low level casters.

Overall the design looks like they took two weak trees and smashed them together. The calls to remove the caster stuff are likely in the hopes that if that were to happen the devs would realize how weak this tree is and make it viable. If they want to design this properly with items that work for casters and melee both that could work. Shiradi comes a lot closer to a tree that can work for both ranged and casters than this does for melee and casters.

Shiradi is not good for casters.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Shiradi is not good for casters.

Exactly. I can run Shadowdancer as primary tree for my 3PK Necro-Illusionist, but absolutely cannot run Shiradi as caster.

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

Shiradi is not good for casters.

what about my totally-a-caster totally-not-an-imbue-build wizard eldritch knight inquis that definitely-is-not-a-ranged-character

 

[Ahpuch]

Shiradi is not good for casters.

Perhaps. But it certainly was until they nerfed the proc rates. It could work for ranged or caster because the design of the abilities were along the lines of an effect that worked for ranged or spell damage. On the other hand the Shadowdancer tree was more, if you are a caster have this. If you are a melee (or ranged) have this. It was not a coherent tree IMO. It was a merge of ideas that didn't fully support melee or caster.

Although according to Fisto maybe it does work for caster:

Exactly. I can run Shadowdancer as primary tree for my 3PK Necro-Illusionist, but absolutely cannot run Shiradi as caster.

I stand corrected but it still is weak for melee. I could run Shadowdancer as the primary on my rogue if I don't mind playing a weaker character. Given a choice, I would rather play Shiradi on my warlock than Shadowdancer on my rogue. Maybe there is nothing in Shadowdancer that is useless to your character but for a melee? weak sauce and dead choices. Perhaps the problem is not that it is trying to cover too many styles but just that what is doing for melee / rogue is too weak compared to the other options.

 

[Lazuli]

Ahpuch, I don't argue that shadowdancer need fixing. It is poor for both caster and melee because even if there are casters who use it to get weird (which is theft, because that should be a level 9 wiz/sor spell), it falls quite short in the rest. And it's even worse for melee. But currently shadowdancer is better than shiradi for caster, at least has uses for shadowcaster and maybe weird. So I don't object to changing shadowdancer, but please don't say that shiradi is better than shadowdancer for caster, because it isn't.

Yes, it was the nerf that obliterated shiradi for caster use. But it did that with nuclear efficiency xD. As always, there may be a specific build that can still benefit, but this also happens with shadowdancer, and does not mean that it is a good ED in general.


edit -- before devs nerf the proc rates Shiradi had a functional mantle, but everything else was useless for caster. That's why when devs nerfed the mantle, there was nothing left for caster. In short, shiradi wasn't a wonder then for caster either, because it only worked thanks to the mantle.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

what is doing for melee / rogue is too weak compared to the other options.

It's correct and it's issue we argue here.

 

[Unk]

I love shadow dancer for my force illusionist melee wolf scout. One of my favorite builds and when they made shadow dancer he got a major buff. Its actually a real build also.

 

[Ahpuch]

please don't say that shiradi is better than shadowdancer for caster, because it isn't.

To clarify, I am saying that Shiradi is better for casters than Shadowdancer is for Melee. A caster taking Shiradi as the main destiny over other options suffers less than a Melee taking Shadow Dancer as the main destiny over the other options (My opinion, YMMV). The Shiradi is bad casters is not relevant (and I never said it was good for casters) since the point of this thread is that "ShadowDancer is not good for melee/rogues".

It's correct and it's issue we argue here.

I understand that. I was responding to a poster that said caster stuff shouldn't be removed on why I thought people are asking for that. It could easily be said that the melee / rogue stuff should be removed and put into a new tree. The mushiness of SD is not great.

 

[Lazuli]

To clarify, I am saying that Shiradi is better for casters than Shadowdancer is for Melee. A caster taking Shiradi as the main destiny over other options suffers less than a Melee taking Shadow Dancer as the main destiny over the other options (My opinion, YMMV). The Shiradi is bad casters is not relevant (and I never said it was good for casters) since the point of this thread is that "ShadowDancer is not good for melee/rogues".

Honestly, I don't agree. Shiradi is terrible for casters, and it is no better than shadowdancer for melees. I prefer that you not make false comparisons. I don't dispute the need to improve Shadoedancer, but don't make fallacious arguments.

 

[Ahpuch]

Honestly, I don't agree. Shiradi is terrible for casters, and it is no better than shadowdancer for melees. I prefer that you not make false comparisons. I don't dispute the need to improve Shadoedancer, but don't make fallacious arguments.

Sorry my bad. I made a comparison without checking with you about whether it was the objective truth. I will attempt to not post fallacious arguments in the future. Can I PM you in the future before I post?

 

[Lazuli]

Sorry my bad. I made a comparison without checking with you about whether it was the objective truth. I will attempt to not post fallacious arguments in the future. Can I PM you in the future before I post?

No need to be sarcastic. My experience is contrary to yours. In any case, we deeply disagree, because in my experience shiradi for casters is as bad or worse than shadowdancer for melees. I wont add more to this thread.