When are the devs gonna fix Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny:

[Dergex]

now that i think about it, this thread baffles me. yeah, shadowdancer needs a buff, but I have NEVER seen anybody ask for a primal avatar buff. t5 PA is (IMO) worse than shadowdancer. just food for thought, but a discussion for another day....

Primal Avatar definitely needs a buff as well. One big difference though is that the main audience of Primal Avatar are Druids. They typically focus on Draconic Incarnation and Exalted Angel for their destinies right now and don't lose too much out of it, since their spells get pretty buffed out of it.

The problem here is that Dex based Assassin/Stealth characters have no other main options to choose from. There's always Fury or Dreadnought.. but that doesn't really serve the theme and only aids in either damage or DC.

IMO all destinies should be both viable and preferred for their intended purpose.

 

[VinoeWhines]

The feed back is much appreciated as this Epic Destiny is still not near where it should be and Weird being Off Limits when All other Abilities in each tree can be chosen with no class requirements is ridiculous.

I still propose to move the Caster part of Shadow Dancer to Magus of the Eclipse as even the name implies Magician of the Eclipse which is an Illusionist at heart. Take it to it's Home in Magus of the Eclipse.
This will open up Shadow Dancer to make it a Tree for Stealthy, Sneak Dice and Evasive/Incorporeal/Dodge type players.


Shadowdancer

Core 1 (level 20): Shadow Training: You gain the Quick Draw feat if you didn't have it already. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, 3% Dodge/Dodge Cap, +1 Epic DC, 5 Sneak Attack Damage and 10 Heal Amp on Sneak Attack stacking 5 times and last for 12 seconds.
Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door SLA. Cooldown of 2 minutes. You also gain the ability to tumble through enemies.

Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1 and are immune to glancing blows.

Core 12 (level 32): Cut to the Soul: +3% dodge bypass, +3% fortification bypass, +3% damage versus the helpless. When you blind an enemy, it automatically applies 3 stacks of the Darkness debuff even if the enemy avoids the Attack. This effect also applies on Sneak Attacks. Darkness debuff: You are vulnerable to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 5 stacks and if you have Bring the Darkness this increases to a max of 10 stacks.

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +1/2/3 bonus to sneak attack damage, +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs, Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: Gain the Hide in Plain Sight feat.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Gain a permanent benefit of Nightshield.
• Well of Darkness: +60/90/120 Unconscious Range while stealthed. Last for 15 seconds out of stealthed.
• Assassinate Proficiency: Your Assassinate gains Strikethrough%.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Nimble Fingers feat, +3 Sneak Attack dice.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Sleight of Hand: Stacking+2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands and +1/2/3 to Trap DCs. Your Traps and Vials gain Sneak Attack Dice to their Damage if you have the Trapmaking feat and scale with Melee or Range Power whichever is higher. You gain the Distract ability. Distract: Your familiar appears at a targeted location, acting as a distraction and attracting attention of monsters who may be searching for you in the area.
• Dance in the Dark: +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice and +1/2/3 dodge and dodge cap. 5/10/15% stacking Displacement.
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. Grants +15% Quality bonus to movement speed, 25% Quality bonus to Sneak Speed, 15% Quality bonus to Attack Speed, and grants ghost touch on all attacks.
• Lithe: +2/4/6 reflex saves, AC and light armor Max Dex Bonus. 10/15/20 PRR for Cloth or Robes. Rank 3: +50 Unconscious Range.
• Multiselector: (Epic Strike)
  • Shadowstrike (melee): Epic Strike: +5[W], +3 Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. Enemy must make a Fortitude save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 15 seconds.
  • Shadowstrike (ranged): Epic Strike: +5[W], +3 Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. Enemy must make a Fortitude save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 15 seconds.
  • Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. In addition, you have -5 PRR, MRR. Stacks 3 times.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Grim Precision: +10/20/30 Strikethrough on Sneak Attacks, and you bypass 5/10/15% enemy Fortification.
• ShadowMaster: Multiselector:
  • MeldMaster: Killing an enemy grants you 20% Uncapped Dodge and 10% Uncapped Incorporeal for 10 seconds. -10% Cooldowns to Tactical abilities. Your critical hits blind monsters with no save for 5 seconds. Immunity to Energy Drain.
  • Shadowstriker: +10% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Your critical hits blind monsters with no save for 5 seconds. Immunity to Energy Drain. -10% Cooldowns to Tactical abilities.
• Depths of Darkness: While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you gain 35% Incorporeality, 35% Concealment and 10% dodge and dodge cap.
• Shadowdancer Focus: Multiselector:
  • +1/2/3% Dodge bypass.
  • +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice.
  • +1/2/3 Assassinate DCs.
  • +1/2/3 Imbuement Dice.
• Epic Strike Upgrade: Dark Imbuement: Your Epic Strike now imbues your weapons attacks with the Slay Living effect on Vorpal (DC20 + highest Ability mod + Assassination bonuses) Your weapons are Imbued with Evil energies for 10s: You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power whichever is higher.)

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +2/4/6 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak Attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, Blindness and gain -3 Enemy Dodge bypass.
• From the Shadows: You dissolve into shadows, passing though enemies, before appearing some distance in front of you (No longer requires stealth to use) . This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic Strike if you have them trained. Cooldown: 20 seconds. If stealthed while in use, you Stun enemies for 5 seconds as you pass by their Shadows.
• Dark Mercy: Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle now grants you +5/10/15% Helplessness damage and your sneak attack dice of vampirism on critical hit.
• Bring Darkness: When you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, applying the Darkness debuff. If you have the feat First Blood, the trigger of First Blood now also applies to every successful Sneak Attack Hit and debuffs any enemy casted buffs for 5 seconds, and First Blood no longer has an HP requirement to take effect. Darkness: The target is no longer immune to Sneak Attacks. -10 Physical Resistance Rating and -10 Magical Resistance Rating per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 5 stacks.
• Epic Strike Upgrade II: Multiselector:
  • Reaching Imbuement: Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range.
  • Shadowed Imbuement: Dark Imbuement now grants 15% doubleshot.
  • Blind Imbuement: Dark Imbuement blinds enemies on Critical Hits for 10 seconds. DC20 + highest of mod + Assassination bonus.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Shadow Consumption: You create a destructive resonance field around yourself that lasts 10 seconds(Implosion). Every 2 seconds, the aura causes one nearby corporeal enemy to collapse in upon themselves and die, with a DC20 + highest mod + Assassination bonuses to prevent the death. Cooldown: 60 seconds.
• Just a Taste: +1 multiplier on an attack roll of 19-20 with bows, thrown weapons, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons. This bonus doubles if you are using a Shadowblade or Elemental Blade (Conjured Shadowblades, Flameblades, Thornblades and the Dryad and the Demigod Raid Weapons.)
• Greater Shadowform: You also gain +10 Sneak Attack Damage. While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you float as if you had Feather Fall, gain +20 Hide and Move Silently, and no longer trigger Tremor Sense and pressure plate or bear traps. (Note: As a result of the floating, you are also immune to Trip and Knockdown effects.)
• Greater Shadowdancer Focus: Multiselector:
• +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice
• +1/2/3 to Assassination DCs
• +1/2/3 to Imbue Dice
• Meld Into Darkness: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You gain Legendary Vorpal. You also gain 12d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% to Incorporeal and Dodge and Dodge Cap, your Epic Strike gain Mortal Fear. Duration: 30 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

Legendary Vorpal. If your target has fewer than 5000 hit points, it is instantly slain.
Mortal Fear: On Hit: 8 to 64 Force Damage. In addition, 5% chance to cut non-boss foe's current health in half.

This would not bring Shadow Dancer to what it was before but it would at least make it more conducive to being a viable Tier 4 and 5 Epic Destiny for it's intended classes.

 

[VinoeWhines]

This could also replace Weird:


Visage of Terror:

• Terrorize up to six enemies, killing them with fear if they fail a Will save vs. 10 + Constitution modifier + half barbarian level.
  • Enemies who make their saving throw are paralyzed with Fear for six second instead.
  • Doesn't affect bosses or monsters immune to fear or paralysis.

This is a nice boiler point for having this as a Weird option for Shadow Dancer Tree:

Shadows of Terror:

• Terrorize up to six enemies, killing them with fear of their own Shadows if they fail a Will save vs. 20 + Highest Stat modifier + Assassinate bonus.
  • Enemies who make their saving throw are confused with Uncertainty and Attack one another for twelve second instead.
  • Doesn't affect bosses or monsters immune to sneak attack.
  Enemies who make their saving throw are stunned with Uncertainty for six second instead.
  • Doesn't affect bosses or monsters immune to sneak attack.
• Cooldown 60 seconds.

 

[Dragnilar]

Primal Avatar definitely needs a buff as well. One big difference though is that the main audience of Primal Avatar are Druids. They typically focus on Draconic Incarnation and Exalted Angel for their destinies right now and don't lose too much out of it, since their spells get pretty buffed out of it.

The problem here is that Dex based Assassin/Stealth characters have no other main options to choose from. There's always Fury or Dreadnought.. but that doesn't really serve the theme and only aids in either damage or DC.

IMO all destinies should be both viable and preferred for their intended purpose.

Likewise, Divine Crusader, while decent, is still not where it should be compared to what it was before imo.

The loss of additional uses for turn undead, loss of additional active abilities, lame epic moment (zeal of righteousness seemed like it should have been kept imo) and the questionable true seeing / blindness immunity dp waster (I guess it's there if you need it, but imo it's so easy to get eversight or true seeing on gear and blindness is heavily under-utilized by monsters) all leave something to be desired.


But back to the topic at hand:

This could also replace Weird:


Visage of Terror:

• Terrorize up to six enemies, killing them with fear if they fail a Will save vs. 10 + Constitution modifier + half barbarian level.
  • Enemies who make their saving throw are paralyzed with Fear for six second instead.
  • Doesn't affect bosses or monsters immune to fear or paralysis.

This is a nice boiler point for having this as a Weird option for Shadow Dancer Tree:

Shadows of Terror:

• Terrorize up to six enemies, killing them with fear of their own Shadows if they fail a Will save vs. 20 + Highest Stat modifier + Assassinate bonus.
  • Enemies who make their saving throw are confused with Uncertainty and Attack one another for twelve second instead.
  • Doesn't affect bosses or monsters immune to sneak attack.
  Enemies who make their saving throw are stunned with Uncertainty for six second instead.
  • Doesn't affect bosses or monsters immune to sneak attack.
• Cooldown 60 seconds.

I think that's a decent start at a replacement for weird. My question is - if a monster is uncertain, should that make them fully vulnerable to sneak attack even if they are undead / thoughtless like an ooze?

 

[Contessor]

I said this when SD first came out. Making this a caster friendly tree is what made it useless for anyone else. It’s a martial tree for crying out loud, not an arcane/divine tree. All the martial destinies were made almost useless for DPS melee, except for grandmaster, and that’s only best used as a minor tree. The divine and primal trees became the new martial go to for a primary destiny.

 

[VinoeWhines]

Illusion Caster in Shadow Dancer is a Magician that uses illusions and that falls plainly at the feet of a Magus(Magush) of the Eclipse as the name implies and could be easily branched into doing it's already Force Damage in Tree with a choice of illusion as a choice to go with the damage.
It needs to be brought back home to it's namesake Epic Destiny, where it would settle in just fine and let Shadow Dancer really shine for what it should of been.

If anything they could always create another Epic Destiny Tree for Arcane Trickster type of builds and There! is where they can dabble with Gish builds.

 

[Edrein]

The feed back is much appreciated as this Epic Destiny is still not near where it should be and Weird being Off Limits when All other Abilities in each tree can be chosen with no class requirements is ridiculous.

I still propose to move the Caster part of Shadow Dancer to Magus of the Eclipse as even the name implies Magician of the Eclipse which is an Illusionist at heart. Take it to it's Home in Magus of the Eclipse.
This will open up Shadow Dancer to make it a Tree for Stealthy, Sneak Dice and Evasive/Incorporeal/Dodge type players.

-snip-

This would not bring Shadow Dancer to what it was before but it would at least make it more conducive to being a viable Tier 4 and 5 Epic Destiny for it's intended classes.

A looooot of those numbers would need to be adjusted downward before the devs would consider that unfortunately.

As it stands your version goes from being a tertiary tree at best for most builds to suddenly becoming the defacto melee tree. As any 'martial' melee would be silly not to use Shadowdancer as their main tree due to the debuff potential alone, let alone the stacking defenses and sneak attack damage for raw DPS.

 

[Dergex]

More than anything I think that this tree should double down on existing class features and allow them to stack with available gear and give them easy access to critical buffs that are annoying or inconsistent to get otherwise.

Things like improved movement speed, full stealth speed, stacking bonuses to incorporeality, easy access to displacement, bonuses to dodge and max dodge that are doubled if you already have improved uncanny dodge, better bonuses to deal with traps, some method of survival that works between inconsistent dodging results... and of course, enabling sneak attack on more targets with less restrictions.

Instant Death mechanics are all well and good too but I'm not about to go so overboard on them that everyone is going to prioritize this destiny over every other destiny.

 

[VinoeWhines]

The thing is, that this Tree was fine and very viable as to how it was before MINUS THE MUCH COMPLAINED Meld Into Darkness( which could of easily have been lowered % wise or bumped up to tier V) to not be ABUSED as the cry was by those that would hate others for a twist in someone’s build.
The illusion Caster should of always just of been put in the illusion tree with the name “Magician” in it’s title “Magus” Magician of the Eclipse.
Take it out of Shadow Dancer and “surgically allign” it back to where it belongs in Magus of the Eclipse force/cold/negative tree that it is already and put illusion so rightfully so in it.

 

[Dragnilar]

The thing is, that this Tree was fine and very viable as to how it was before MINUS THE MUCH COMPLAINED Meld Into Darkness( which could of easily have been lowered % wise or bumped up to tier V) to not be ABUSED as the cry was by those that would hate others for a twist in someone’s build.
The illusion Caster should of always just of been put in the illusion tree with the name “Magician” in it’s title “Magus” Magician of the Eclipse.
Take it out of Shadow Dancer and “surgically allign” it back to where it belongs in Magus of the Eclipse force/cold/negative tree that it is already and put illusion so rightfully so in it.

You'd also think it would be in Magus since we have an iconic whose theme is illusion spells and happens to be a Wizard.

I sorta of can get why they thought illusions fit the "shadow" aspect of SD, but as you've been saying, it is a mess when paired with the Rogues baseline.

 

[seph1roth5]

I don't think they've ever actually done much if any tweaking to epic destinies since they changed the system. Other than some bugfixes entering release notes such as "___ is now working correctly!" which led me to question if it had been broken for months/years and I just didn't know, or if it was recently broken.

 

[VinoeWhines]

People are worried about the Time Stop changes and I can assure you Devs if you were to put the illusionist part of Shadow Dancer Very Rightfully so back into Magus(Magush=Magician) of the Eclipse many would rejoice as a Caster and for the Casters.

Server population might even Double in Joy as many would feverishly be hungry to try out new combinations and ability concepts, there wouldn’t be enough hours in the day to keep wanting to try new things and if they didn’t work it would “Have still Been a Joy” to of fleshed and tested it out anyway.

Bring the illusionist Home back to its rightful Tree we would all be understanding and happy that if Shadow Dancer tree would be a Work in Progress for a bit, as new or original abilities it once had, would be reimplemented back in with its new abilities it has now.

This change would be very welcomed and a sign of good faith as this community of Dungeons and Dragons Online keeps looking forward to improve gameplay and introduction of new, exciting material over the horizon.
Thank you for your attention of this matter.

 

[Contessor]

The thing is, that this Tree was fine and very viable as to how it was before MINUS THE MUCH COMPLAINED Meld Into Darkness( which could of easily have been lowered % wise or bumped up to tier V) to not be ABUSED as the cry was by those that would hate others for a twist in someone’s build.
The illusion Caster should of always just of been put in the illusion tree with the name “Magician” in it’s title “Magus” Magician of the Eclipse.
Take it out of Shadow Dancer and “surgically allign” it back to where it belongs in Magus of the Eclipse force/cold/negative tree that it is already and put illusion so rightfully so in it.

Why not just bring back the old magnus tree and make it illusion and force?

 

[VinoeWhines]

Can the Curse of Being a Rogue be removed from Tier V of Shadow Dancer so Rogues can pick from their own Tree and select Weird as every other class can select EVERY OTHER TREES TIER V regardless of class. Rogues can use Greater Ruin Intensified and Dragon Breath and TIME STOP, with no prejudice toward class, type. I thought the Epic Destinies were suppose to be inclusive(Macrotechnic allows the use of a Rune Arm, even as a Druid).

Give Two Weapon Fighting Strikethrough since you removed(cursed) doublestrike proc of Assassinate and Melee offhand doublestrike, so to fix this have it give Strikethrough, just like Improved Precise Shot gives Multi Target Strikethrough for Ranged attacks.

 

[Smokewolf]

Why add a blanket ability such as see-through stealth / invisible to all Reapers and Champs knowing that the end result would cripple stealthy play? Answer: Dev's have never been particularly fond of stealth gameplay, as they never realy understood how to manage it. Beyond nerfing it into oblivion to correct what was perceived to be a broken mechanic.

Add to this that the Dev's have mistakenly made many of the Epic Destiny trees as generic as possible, rather than class specific. Is why Shadow-Dancer is the hot-garbage we all see and lothe today. It's not particularly great for Rogues, and ever worse for caters desiring Wierd.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

ever worse for caters desiring Wierd.

As 3PK Necro-Illusionist i personally consider it as splendid for caster, viable for almost any... Problems here that rogue have from this ED much lesser than all other.

 

[VinoeWhines]

As 3PK Necro-Illusionist i personally consider it as splendid for caster, viable for almost any... Problems here that rogue have from this ED much lesser than all other.

Shadow Dancer is splendid for caster, FOR THE ONE SINGLE PURPOSE OF GETTING WEIRD ONLY. All the waste of a Martial Epic Destiny just for them to get that ability.
Problem is the caster part should be moved to Magus(Magician) of the Eclipse to be aligned and make Shadow Dancer truly a "Shadow Dancer".......


Maybe if MOAR feed back is garnered it will be listened to as this is truly a messed up Epic Destiny for Stealth/Sneak Attack players.
Why Weird is blocked to only casters while EVERY OTHER EPIC DESTINY can be chosen by any class ( Look Ma I can use Rune Arms now, and I'm not even an Artificer: Macrotechnic ) is still beyond me in not being able to use Weird (In My Own Tree) and being Off Limits when All other Abilities in each tree can be chosen, with no class requirements, is ridiculous.

I still propose to move the Caster part of Shadow Dancer to Magus of the Eclipse as even the name implies Magician of the Eclipse which is an Illusionist at heart. Take it to it's Home in Magus of the Eclipse.
This will open up Shadow Dancer to make it a Tree for Stealthy, Sneak Dice and Evasive/Incorporeal/Dodge type players.


Shadowdancer

Core 1 (level 20): Shadow Training: You gain the Quick Draw feat if you didn't have it already. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, 3% Dodge/Dodge Cap, +1 Epic DC, 5 Sneak Attack Damage and 10 Heal Amp on Sneak Attack stacking 5 times and last for 12 seconds.
Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door SLA. Cooldown of 2 minutes. You also gain the ability to tumble through enemies.

Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1 and are immune to glancing blows.

Core 12 (level 32): Cut to the Soul: +3% dodge bypass, +3% fortification bypass, +3% damage versus the helpless. When you blind an enemy, it automatically applies 3 stacks of the Darkness debuff even if the enemy avoids the Attack. This effect also applies on Sneak Attacks. Darkness debuff: You are vulnerable to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 5 stacks and if you have Bring the Darkness this increases to a max of 10 stacks.

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +1/2/3 bonus to sneak attack damage, +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs, Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: Gain the Hide in Plain Sight feat.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Gain a permanent benefit of Nightshield.
• Well of Darkness: +60/90/120 Unconscious Range while stealthed. Last for 15 seconds out of stealthed.
• Assassinate Proficiency: Your Assassinate gains Strikethrough%.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Nimble Fingers feat, +3 Sneak Attack dice.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Sleight of Hand: Stacking+2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands and +1/2/3 to Trap DCs. Your Traps and Vials gain Sneak Attack Dice to their Damage if you have the Trapmaking feat and scale with Melee or Range Power whichever is higher. You gain the Distract ability. Distract: Your familiar appears at a targeted location, acting as a distraction and attracting attention of monsters who may be searching for you in the area.
• Dance in the Dark: +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice and +1/2/3 dodge and dodge cap. 5/10/15% stacking Displacement.
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. Grants +15% Quality bonus to movement speed, 25% Quality bonus to Sneak Speed, 15% Quality bonus to Attack Speed, and grants ghost touch on all attacks.
• Lithe: +2/4/6 reflex saves, AC and light armor Max Dex Bonus. 10/15/20 PRR for Cloth or Robes. Rank 3: +50 Unconscious Range.
• Multiselector: (Epic Strike)
  • Shadowstrike (melee): Epic Strike: +5[W], +3 Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. Enemy must make a Fortitude save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 15 seconds.
  • Shadowstrike (ranged): Epic Strike: +5[W], +3 Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. Enemy must make a Fortitude save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 15 seconds.
  • Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. In addition, you have -5 PRR, MRR. Stacks 3 times.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Grim Precision: +10/20/30 Strikethrough on Sneak Attacks if you have any Greater Weapon Trained, and you bypass 5/10/15% enemy Fortification.
• ShadowMaster: Multiselector:
  • MeldMaster: Killing an enemy grants you 20% Uncapped Dodge and 10% Uncapped Incorporeal for 10 seconds. -10% Cooldowns to Tactical abilities. Your critical hits blind monsters with no save for 5 seconds. Immunity to Energy Drain.
  • Shadowstriker: +10% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Your critical hits blind monsters with no save for 5 seconds. Immunity to Energy Drain. -10% Cooldowns to Tactical abilities.
• Depths of Darkness: While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you gain 35% Incorporeality, 35% Concealment and 10% dodge and dodge cap.
• Shadowdancer Focus: Multiselector:
  • +1/2/3% Dodge bypass.
  • +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice.
  • +1/2/3 Assassinate DCs.
  • +1/2/3 Imbuement Dice.
• Epic Strike Upgrade: Dark Imbuement: Your Epic Strike now imbues your weapons attacks with the Slay Living effect on Vorpal (DC20 + highest Ability mod + Assassination bonuses) Your weapons are Imbued with Evil energies for 10s: You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power whichever is higher.)

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +2/4/6 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak Attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, Blindness and gain -3 Enemy Dodge bypass.
• From the Shadows: You dissolve into shadows, disappearing and becoming completely invisible, passing though enemies, before re-appearing some distance in front of you (No longer requires stealth to use) . This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic Strike if you have them trained. Cooldown: 20 seconds. If Stealthed while in use, you Stun enemies for 5 seconds as you pass by their Shadows.
• Dark Mercy: Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle now grants you +5/10/15% Helplessness damage and your sneak attack dice of vampirism on critical hit.
• Bring Darkness: When you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, applying the Darkness debuff. If you have the feat First Blood, the trigger of First Blood now also applies to every successful Sneak Attack Hit and debuffs any enemy casted buffs for 5 seconds, and First Blood no longer has an HP requirement to take effect. Darkness: The target is no longer immune to Sneak Attacks. -10 Physical Resistance Rating and -10 Magical Resistance Rating per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 5 stacks.
• Epic Strike Upgrade II: Multiselector:
  • Reaching Imbuement: Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range.
  • Shadowed Imbuement: Dark Imbuement now grants 15% doubleshot.
  • Blind Imbuement: Dark Imbuement blinds enemies on Critical Hits for 10 seconds. DC20 + highest of mod + Assassination bonus.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Shadow Consumption: You create a destructive resonance field around yourself that lasts 10 seconds(Implosion). Every 2 seconds, the aura causes one nearby corporeal enemy to collapse in upon themselves and die, with a DC20 + highest mod + Assassination bonuses to prevent the death. Cooldown: 60 seconds.
• Just a Taste: +1 multiplier on an attack roll of 19-20 with bows, thrown weapons, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons. This bonus doubles if you are using a Shadowblade or Elemental Blade (Conjured Shadowblades, Flameblades, Thornblades and the Dryad and the Demigod Raid Weapons.)
• Greater Shadowform: You also gain +10 Sneak Attack Damage. While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you float as if you had Feather Fall, gain +20 Hide and Move Silently, and no longer trigger Tremor Sense and pressure plate or bear traps. (Note: As a result of the floating, you are also immune to Trip and Knockdown effects.)
• Greater Shadowdancer Focus: Multiselector:
• +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice
• +1/2/3 to Assassination DCs
• +1/2/3 to Imbue Dice
• Meld Into Darkness: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, gain uninterrupted Legendary Dark Discorporation. leaving your corporeal form behind you gain 50% stacking to Incorporeal and Dodge and Dodge Cap and damage from all sources (except for Untyped/Bane damage) is reduced by 75%. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You gain Legendary Vorpal. You also gain 12d6 Sneak Attack Dice, your Epic Strike gain Mortal Fear. Duration: 30 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

Legendary Vorpal. If your target has fewer than 5000 hit points, it is instantly slain.
Mortal Fear: On Hit: 8 to 64 Force Damage. In addition, 10% chance to cut non-boss foe's current health in half.

Thank you Standing Stone Developers for looking into Shadow Dancer and fixing this misaligned Epic Destiny.

 

[Orchidblossomwasgutted]

Why did you take away Shadow Manipulation and give it to a Range Tree in Shiradi as Beguile Charm(as if they needed more, as it is a safer Ranged toon Epic Destiny) Rogues and stealth melees needed it SO MUCH MORE, to enter into touch range melee styles, which is a very dangerous type of combat, compared to 20 feet away Mass AOE Casters and Range characters.

Why did we loose Consume as a Stealth(Rogue player here) and give it to Casters(even Artificers?) in a WAY better form as (AOE instakill Mass Phantasmal Killer)Weird("WITH" a ONE MINUTE COOLDOWN!) in our own Tree?(I CANNOT EVEN PICK IT FROM MY OWN TREE!) That really sucks; almost every other Tree(Which I CAN PICK!) has Mass Frog, Everything Is Nothing, Cut the Strings, I can even pick Super Greater Ruin!!!,, etc. but not Weird from my OWN TREE?.... and Shadow Dancer gets absolutely nothing, when it had "Somethings" before, what was the logic of that?

We had: Executioner Shot/Strike(only a 30% chance, ONLY A 30% CHANCE, which was a very weak chance) to take out a mob(Now, Rangers DH get an Assassinate), While Casters get: Slay Living, Finger of Death, Power Word Kill, Frog, Mass Frog, Banishments, Phantasmal Killer, etc on SECONDS(<60) for cooldowns. With chances to reduce them to single digit seconds. ?????!!!!!

Even Dire Charge is nice, why wasn't Shadow Dancer given a way to create an AOE CC like Dire Charge? Even Greater Master of Flowers, Fury, Divine Crusaders ALL have, AOE stuns? (No balance at all)

The fact we have to choose Meld as a choice between a Epic Strike and Survivability is bad, as it use to be able to be TOGETHER! That Tree had both, BOTH!
You could of just lowered the (%)Dodge Chance like you did; but keep it separate from the Epic Strike as it has nothing to do with dealing Damage - but EVERYTHING to do with "survivability" as a squishy class. SURVIVABILITY> Epic Strike.

What in Dungeon Realms is Wand and Scroll Mastery doing in Shadow Dancers tree? It was promised to be a Multiplier to Heroic Trees Wand and Scroll Mastery but it isn't(It was Suppose to Stack per your pre-notes) and is a waste of points in that Tree. Unless....unless it can be...

It should of been this(at present but) which would of kept as is BUT added a real positive benefit for Trapmakers:

Sleight of Hand:
Passive: +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% (Stacking)damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. (that's fine as an extra but, really needs this as it's merit: )
Active: 1/2/3 points
Sleight of Hand: Traps and Vial Mastery: If you have the Trapmaking Feat: You can make Noisemaker Traps(8 second clicky) or Noisemaker throwing Vials(on exploding they stick to door/wall and make ticking sound), with the ability to place(traps) or throw(Vials) in stealth.
Active:
(Tier 1): If you have the Trapmaking Feat, you can now add your Sneak Attack Dice and Damage to Traps and Veils.
(Tier 2): You can use the higher of Melee or Range Power to Traps and Veils you Throw.
(Tier 3):You can inscribe scrolls as Traps and Alchemical Recipes as Vials.

Suggestions: maybe have specific Alchemical Vials like Mass Suggestion/Confusion, Turn to Frog/Bat, a real Large AOE Tanglefoot a la "Sharn exploding goo"(with DC: Reflex (DC 20 + Character Level + Stat Modifier + Assassinate Bonus)
and Shadow-Thunderstone: Alchemical Vial Trap Attack: 1d6+2 Large AOE Force an damage per character level and dazes in an area. Fort DC (12/16/20 + Character Level + Stat Modifier + Assassinate Bonus).

Anyway you cut it, Melee and as a Rogue(less old Shadow Dancer) is almost extinct and a heavy burden to play, as seen as a very unforgiving playstyle and tedious then ever before. Especially in Upper Reapers getting one shotted now.

The Epic Destiny, Epic Moment puts you in Harms way of HAVING to get swung at and Missed!(You basically become a swinging Pinata target) in order for the Epic Moment to work defensively, so you either turn into a soulstone or you wait another 5 minutes to get extra Sneak attack dice. It is a Very Dangerous Epic Moment to rely on, you either come out of it alive or a soulstone. (Maybe if it had a 10,000HP Unconscious Range or a 30 second Dreamscape 20 second type of invulnerability) Otherwise you get a 5 minute cooldown extra sneak dice....

There should be something to bring down the cooldown of Assassinate (6 second cooldown), Uncanny Dodge(half it's time), an AOE Sap of some sorts.

Please move the Force Caster side of Shadow Dancer to Manus of the Eclipse, where it is more thematically relevant there, as an additional damage type (Force Damage option) to it's already Cold Damage, Negative Damage slim options and synergizes better with it going up the Tree as relevant Caster type options.

Shadow Dancer has to waste useful spots in it's own Tree that does absolutely nothing to it's Melee/Range option, when it has to share with a Caster DC's and other Spell choices, that are completely overlooked at in that spot for Rogue/Stealth players.

Example in Tree:

Core 4: Cut to the Soul: When you cast the spell Trap the Soul, it automatically applies 3 stacks of the Darkness debuff even if the enemy survives the spell.
(Maybe put in instead: "Gain an AOE sap or stun ability.")

Tier 1 (Requires Character Level 20):
Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spell Points, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spell Power
(Put back Tumble through enemies , like it use to be before. Adding in a Stun effect) Could also build/add instead: Create Traps. DC's based off Disable Device score 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill(Improved Traps Enhancement)

Tier 3 (Requires Character Level 23, 10 points spent in tree)
Shadowdancer Spell Focus: Multiselector:
Shadowdancer Spell Focus Abjuration +1/2/3 Abjuration DCs
Shadowdancer Spell Focus Enchantment +1/2/3 Enchantment DCs
Shadowdancer Spell Focus Illusion +1/2/3 Illusion DCs
Shadowdancer Spell Focus Necromancy +1/2/3 Necromancy DCs
(This should be where Meld into Darkness can be separated and "add" things like Stun, Sap, higher % of the Dodge cap)
Add this instead -
(Passive)Meld into Darkness: Grants you 10% uncapped dodge when attacking or tumbling. Can Tumble through enemies.(GMoF kept it in their Tree!)
Shadowdancer Focus: Multiselector:
Defensive: Add 5/10/15 PRR
Offensive: Your next melee/Range attacks deals +25/50/75% damage.
Crowd Control: Improve Deception(When attacking an enemy cause it to believe it got attacked by another enemy or cower based off of your Bluff score)

Tier 4:
Improved Meld: put another 5% more uncapped Dodge in Meld bringing it up to 15% Dodge.
Improved Depths of Darkness: Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle gain a stacking 10% Incorporeality and 15% Concealment.


Tier 5 (Requires Character Level 30, 30 points spent in the tree)
Greater Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs
Put back Original Consume or a similar ability like Cut the Strings. (It has a 60 second cooldown) A Shadow Dancer version of Cut the Strings.

Shadow Threads:
All monsters within a wide radius around you are forced to be held in place for 10 seconds, cut their existance with any weapon strike or spell at a rate of once per second, instantly killing them. Mirrored by their Shadows after 10 seconds they begin to attack each other for 1 second + 1 extra second per Assassinate bonus, believing they are their own worst enemy, (Will vs DC:20 + Highest Stat Mod + Assassinate)

Side Note:
Tier I's "Stealthy" included "Assassinate" TOGETHER before and now it's split up?
+1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: Gain the Hide in Plain Sight feat. +2/4/6 to your Assassinate DCs.(they were together before)

This would open up a spot in Tier one to put down "Dance in the Dark": +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice
That way you can put back in Tier II "Shadow Manipulation"(Dominate ability with the Slay Living effect at end);
just like Shiradi Champion has "Beguile Charm" in it's Tier II.
(Once again, as a melee character, Shadow Manipulation should be more useful for melees being at a disadvantage than range characters And More So Range AOE Casters.)
Right now this Tree has an identity crisis, a bipolar effect where both sides are an afterthought, when it use to be such a pleasant Tree for Rogues or Stealth players to participate in. All because of Meld into Darkness??? You could of just lowered the dodge% and called it a day and the Tree was still very viable with the stat squish that was done and removed from Trees.

Yea, And gimme back my "You always hit except on a roll of 1." Ability called Pierce the Gloom!

 

[voenixa121]

Shadowdancer should keep the caster stuff. Just because draconic is OP for casters shouldnt mean that all other trees lose their caster support. If anything, make paranoia more worth it please. Rogues are not the only ones that want to play sneaky. Why shouldnt I be able to play a stealthy caster? Especially now that we have a dedicated stealth\illusion caster enhancement in feydark ilusionist. I think decoupling the destinies from the classes was a good thing, lets not roll that back.

 

[Ahpuch]

Shadowdancer should keep the caster stuff. Just because draconic is OP for casters shouldnt mean that all other trees lose their caster support. If anything, make paranoia more worth it please. Rogues are not the only ones that want to play sneaky. Why shouldnt I be able to play a stealthy caster? Especially now that we have a dedicated stealth\illusion caster enhancement in feydark ilusionist. I think decoupling the destinies from the classes was a good thing, lets not roll that back.

It could keep the caster stuff but those items should not come at the expense of having enough good stuff for the non-caster (and vice versa). Right now there is insufficient good stuff for either casters or melee to make this their primary tree with too many items being specific to one or the other style. And then there is weird which actually locks out non and low level casters.

Overall the design looks like they took two weak trees and smashed them together. The calls to remove the caster stuff are likely in the hopes that if that were to happen the devs would realize how weak this tree is and make it viable. If they want to design this properly with items that work for casters and melee both that could work. Shiradi comes a lot closer to a tree that can work for both ranged and casters than this does for melee and casters.