Wizard: Eldritch Knight seems too good

[RobShow]

Then play a Sorc, because that's the class that does what you want in this game

Its like complaining Paladin doesnt have the same healing ability that Favored Soul does. Its not the role that class fills. We dont need multiple classes doing the exact same thing the exact same way...

You don't get it, but that's okay.

 

[droid327]

You don't get it, but that's okay.

No I do. You're applying external expectations onto the game (because you "always play wizard" and thus have some external expectations of what wizard does), instead of just playing the game as it is. That's always going to lead to disappointment, but the solution is for you to change your expectations, not for SSG to change the game.

 

[Br4d]

ANYTHING can dominate R1.

This is something that people often say but it's not true.

Any good build well geared with a way to do DPS or IK can dominate R1.

There are a million builds that will die by the 3rd pull in Legendary R1.

 

[RobShow]

No I do. You're applying external expectations onto the game (because you "always play wizard" and thus have some external expectations of what wizard does), instead of just playing the game as it is. That's always going to lead to disappointment, but the solution is for you to change your expectations, not for SSG to change the game.

Freud's spirit descended into the body.

Sorcerer deals damage, which is its main function and class signature.
In addition, Sorc does CC very well.

Wizard does CC and Insta Kill, it's their main function and class signature.
On top of that, the Wizard's DPS is sucks not only compared to the Sorcerer which performs very well beyond its main function but compared to 90% classes.

These are not expectations, they are facts!
Facts that even a person like me who loves Wizards recognizes, is about this information that I like Wizard.
It would be very convenient for me to deny the wizard DPS crap because I love the class, but facts ignore taste.

As I said at the beginning... This problem started when the DEVs changed the game from group co-op where everyone had a role and needed the others to: Be ******! Play alone without needing others, it's here, now you heal yourself, you have DPS, etc...

The mistake is to make many classes self-sufficient and some not independent of these classes.

 

[RobShow]

I've never seen any Wizard player ask for buffs to have a DPS equal to the Sorcerer.

What everyone on this boat asks for is for the Wizard to have a DPS with the minimum efficiency to play solo.

It's not about nerfing other classes, it's about fair treatment for everyone!

The goal of the game for years has not been cooperation, the gathering of roles and skills characteristic of each class.

Speaking of NERFs, no one has suffered as significant nerfs as Wizards.

Example: Wail of Banshee

 

[The Narc]

You hav

I've never seen any Wizard player ask for buffs to have a DPS equal to the Sorcerer.

What everyone on this boat asks for is for the Wizard to have a DPS with the minimum efficiency to play solo.

It's not about nerfing other classes, it's about fair treatment for everyone!

The goal of the game for years has not been cooperation, the gathering of roles and skills characteristic of each class.

Speaking of NERFs, no one has suffered as significant nerfs as Wizards.

Example: Wail of Banshee

You have to understand corporate hates the wizard because of palemaster, expect no love from them when it comes to wizards. Its just something you need to come to a level of expectation on as have i and many other players have.

 

[droid327]

In addition, Sorc does CC very well.

I mean...not as well as a Wizard. Wiz gets more Spell Penetration (AM and PM), and can get a DC bonus to schools other than Evo and Conj. Also can have 4 L9 spells (Mass Hold, PWK, Wail) while Sorc cant have all 3 and still have a nuke

 

[Lazuli]

I mean...not as well as a Wizard. Wiz gets more Spell Penetration (AM and PM), and can get a DC bonus to schools other than Evo and Conj. Also can have 4 L9 spells (Mass Hold, PWK, Wail) while Sorc cant have all 3 and still have a nuke

This is comparative efficiency. The wizard class has more DC and spell penetration, but in a well-equipped and developed character it is possible to get a good DC in a sorc, so this wizard advantage is more for new players or less developed alts. And in fact, a well-built sorc like the one we talked about above is superior to a maxed DC wizard because they both hit the no-miss DC, but the sorc has fast casting and a huge pool of spell points that the wizard doesn't have. If you notice, the DC casters who play raids in high reaper are mostly sorcs, not wizards. Because there comes a point where the sorc far surpass the wizards in the area that the wizards are supposed to be kings.

This does not happen in the damage section. Not even the best DPS wizard is going to come even remotely close to an A+ caster, be it Sorc, Druid, etc.

If we now talk about a character built to do damage and CC, as I build mine, we are in the same situation. The sorc can have very decent CC with much higher dps and some instantkills. The wizard will have more or less the same CC, with more instantkills but with abysmally low dps. Given the large number of npcs immune to instantkills at high levels, the sorc's higher dps is much better than the wizard's higher number of instantkills.

It's not that the two classes are equal, it's that devs unfairly favor some options over others, making those who excel at good options disproportionately better than those who don't at all.

I am one of the few people who solo plays wizards in high reaper. It can be made. But playing other casters that way as well, I also tell you that the wizard starts from a very unfair situation, and that his dps is agonizing compared to the other casters. The wizard needs some dps, because it's ridiculous right now.

The problem is not in the class, but in the way the devs favor specialists over generalists.

A big culprit is equipment. A+ casters can happily focus on one or two spellpowers thanks to their bypass immunities, but the wizard doesn't have that luxury, and it's impossible to equip many spellpowers, there are no slots for that. Options like spell lore and potency are terrible with values that are too low (and take a look at how many spell lore items there are in the cap). And force equipment is tremendously deficient today; Even Ying threw in the towel when trying to equip his warlock for force.

Another big culprit is EDs, designed only for specialists. Look at how mantles work: they are tailored to people who only use one or two spellpowers, they are not designed for someone who wants to use their entire spellbook. That the Magus has been considered by the devs the ED designed for wizard says everything about how they understand nothing about how a generalist caster class works. That ED is horrible for the wizard, but good for casters with bypass lol I would invite the devs to play a wizard with that mantle for a whole day, to see if they can last at the end of the day without wanting to kill the character lol

The only caster mantle that can be considered a "generalist!" is the shiradi. And its spellcasting proc is so nerfed that it is absolutely useless for casters. LOL typical.

Epic feats are also tailored toward specialists, but they are less important than the above points.

Then there are other things, like half of the spellbook are useless spells that need a pass, but as you can see the main culprits of the poor efficiency of the wizards are designs outside of the class itself. But of course, if devs are going to continue designing like this they should give the wizard some enhancement to be able to use the highest of his elemental spellpower and critical for all other elemental spells (acid, fire, water, electric). Thus the wizard would still be more difficult to equip than an A+ caster, but at least he could use all of his spells.

And now a new slap is coming for the wizards. The devs want sorcs to be able to change spells without cooldown in trainers as new VIP perk. This means that between quests they can freely change their spells, eliminating the only advantage the wizard has over the sorc. Great, huh? What nice favoritism.

And in the meantime, we're still waiting for the wizards to have decent dps. Not great. DECENT.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

So, nerf casters..?

Seriously though, an excellent summary. I hope the Devs take note.

 

[Lazuli]

Regarding the original topic, EK is an easy and very solid option to play on low difficulty, but its efficiency plummets on high skulls. Spellpower imbues are ridiculously penalized in high reaper (like the rest of spellcasting) and a traditional melee is much better here.

In R1, EK is solid, and is a very easy build for new players. But OP? Please, by what metric do you measure such nonsense? Not even its dps is huge, it cannot be said that there are no melee builds that surpass it (have you tried the new dragonlord? lol). Still, solid and easy.

But OP? LOL Please. On high difficulty the EK is not good at all. In the achievement section you have some videos of a player playing R7 with an EK, but that is more due to the efficiency of the player than the class itself. That same build would not be able to replicate Dom's efficiency playing at R10 with his barbarian, for example.

Don't confuse easy build for low difficulty with OP build lol

 

[Lazuli]

I'm focusing my character on a pure Wizard now. I'm going with Archmage (with a few points into EK and Pale Master as well), and up to level 20 it was a blast because Arcane Blast is so good and also all those cheap metamagic.

However, in Epic levels I'm noticing maybe I don't need Arcane Blast anymore. My mana pool is larger, Meteor Swarm deals way more damage, Epic Strikes are cheap, etc..

So, I'm trying to dump Archmage and putting all points into EK instead. And even being a pure caster, OMG EK seems way too good to pass on. My effective HP is probably double now comparing to Archmage, medium armor, PRR, etc. Also, I thought EK would suffer in relation to spellpower.. but no, my spellpower is even higher as EK than it was as Archmage! (the only downside is having to melee hit to maintain the buffs)

So, my question: Is EK simply busted? Have your guys tryied to more or less compare the Wizard trees? Is EK really the way to go even as pure caster?

No, Archmage is still superior to EK for a caster wizard. It has arcane supremacy, more spell critical, and +2 MCL, which is superior to what EK offers you as a pure caster and not as a hybrid.

Spellpower is not everything, and the difference is not significant to equal what you lose by leaving archmage. Archmage needs a bump in spellpower, and above all, it needs an enhancement that allows the highest elemental spellpower and critical to be used for everyone else, since the equipment does not allow equipping for the entire spellbook. But no, don't let yourself be dazzled by insignificant details. EK is no better than Archmage for pure casters.

 

[Lazuli]

The truth is that no wizard caster build soles R8+ due to lack of DPS.

Mine does. But I also say that it plays with a great disadvantage compared to the A+ casters

 

[Lazuli]

So, nerf casters..?

Seriously though, an excellent summary. I hope the Devs take note.

You know that now the melees are in the OP department and will be next on the chopping block, right? Instead of talking nonsense, enjoy the melees for the time they have left before they taste the atomic nerfhammer.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

You know that now the melees are in the OP department and will be next on the chopping block, right? Instead of talking nonsense, enjoy the melees for the time they have left before they taste the atomic nerfhammer.

Woah! Talk about touchy! I was only pulling your leg.

Maybe the only nonsense I talked was in paying your post a compliment. But no, that still stands, It was a great post.

But no bother. Lesson learned. Handle with care

 

[Lazuli]

Woah! Talk about touchy! I was only pulling your leg.

Maybe the only nonsense I talked was in paying your post a compliment. But no, that still stands, It was a great post.

But no bother. Lesson learned. Handle with care

In forums, being just writing without the help of oral language intonation, jokes, light language, and irony can be easily misinterpreted.

Yes, I'm a little sensitive to the issue now because the devs have gone too far with the caster nerfs and now they are all overnerfed, but the thing is that the casters who were already behind before the nerfs are now in an even more agonizing situation.

I'm very tired of people like Elminster who come up asking for nerfs in things they don't even understand. I'm sorry if you have unfairly received a slap from that frustration.

It's like the OP. He finds the archmage lacking, and instead of asking for improvements, he wonders if the EK is OP! Please! Where has he seen the OPness on that tree?

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

No problem whatsoever Laz. You've always been very fair minded and I totally get how the over nerfs, which they are imo, hurt.

It's a low context medium and humour is an individual thing, and I'm sorry I overstepped. I don't get to decide what you should find funny. I really do appreciate your response, as you didn't have to do that. Thanks.

 

[Lazuli]

I have misunderstood you, and you have received an unfair response, so the apology was due.

And so that this post is not an off topic:

These weeks I'm on very tight time. When I have time I will try to post a topic about wizard build options for people who are having problems with this class. It is true that the class has been heavily penalized for a long time by the unfair design that the devs have been doing, designing all its options for specialist casters and designing all its nerfs for all spellcasting, with which wizards receive the worst part of all the design.

But despite that, if you build well and also play well (the wizard needs a different playing style than other casters), the wizard can do more than people think. Without getting into OPness, please, let's leave the false caster myths of those anti-magic players out of this thread. I'll post that on wizard subforum.

 

[Br4d]

Regarding the original topic, EK is an easy and very solid option to play on low difficulty, but its efficiency plummets on high skulls. Spellpower imbues are ridiculously penalized in high reaper (like the rest of spellcasting) and a traditional melee is much better here.

In R1, EK is solid, and is a very easy build for new players. But OP? Please, by what metric do you measure such nonsense? Not even its dps is huge, it cannot be said that there are no melee builds that surpass it (have you tried the new dragonlord? lol). Still, solid and easy.

But OP? LOL Please. On high difficulty the EK is not good at all. In the achievement section you have some videos of a player playing R7 with an EK, but that is more due to the efficiency of the player than the class itself. That same build would not be able to replicate Dom's efficiency playing at R10 with his barbarian, for example.

Don't confuse easy build for low difficulty with OP build lol

EK's look OP from the standpoint of somebody just starting the pathway on R1.

It's like Batman all over again and you can't see the difficulty ramps down the road.

 

[DBZ]

Until you run into fire golems

 

[Jhozam]

I think the Eldritch Knight is very strong.
I play it pure melee (not hybrid), STR-based, I have a lot of fun, and I get a lot of satisfaction from it