Livmo
Well-known member
I've never been a VIP. Spend way more and don't need or want. I believe in supporting my favorite pastimes.
You're going to take this VIPLP and you're going to like it.
- Thread starter Warsaga
- Start date
Warsaga
present day - present time
Unlikely. SSG won, they put this in and eventually people will stop talking about it and it'll just become another thing we have. We have never seen the staff stop posting on the forums for a month straight like this but they really decided that was the play.
DDO Gaming
Well-known member
Or you accept the system has already hits its natural engineering limits and SSG are merely trying to identify ways to give something back without breaking the system's engineering limits.
Within that context ONLY worthwhile debate is the nature of the rewards and whether SSG could/should have done something different.
And recall a 12 month VIP equates to...52 gold rolls and statistically you will get some of the top prizes available in the DDOStore anyway.
Warsaga
present day - present time
Here's the thing, this is not an unreasonable take. It could actually be that there are hard, technical limits to why certain things had to be as they are. But, they have never shied away from telling us those limits before. Before this, SSG were pretty open with why they did what they did. What happened?
The first VIPLP go around, they were willing to reply to questions and do a video talking about what they were doing and why. What happened?
We didn't start asking for these things in a vacuum; there was precedent. I don't think anyone expected them to just clam up and start ram-rodding a known divisive system down everyone's throat.
But thats exactly what they did. It's surprising, disappointing, and a bit concerning.
Guntango
Well-known member
None of those are actual quotes, though. Those are your misinterpretations.
Ungermax
Master Artificer
You continue to miss the point, which is, that VIP used to give access to all content. With this in mind, the benefits you get are now meagre in comparison. You dont need to constantly remind people what VIP gives, everyone understands this. They have taken the substance out of VIP, the engine out of the car, the meat out of the meat and potatoes.
You can't blame bad decision making on system limitations. Unless by system limitations you mean a lack of rudimentary understanding of value for money.
People have issues with it and therefor they will continue to discuss it. You aint guna win this one dude trust me.
The issue, again, is that the perks outlined in the new program, combined with the existing perks, do not come anywhere near the same value as having access to literally all new content.
Shear-buckler
Well-known member
Accept? Did you mean "make up out of thin air as an excuse"?
Dandonk
This is not the title you're looking for
Changing the VIP bonus XP already happens from time to time, so that is definitely possible.
New characters can start at higher levels, so changing TR start level should be possible as well. If not directly, delivering a stone of XP upon TR is another way.
So, there are definitely some things that are indeed possible.
DDO Gaming
Well-known member
And you know SSG changed the nature of VIP as a result of those freebie codes. My understanding was during COVID2020 SSG noticed an upsurge in "accessory" purchases from the DDOStore that was more lucrative. So...SSG clearly experimented by giving out freebies codes to determine whether this buying trend would continue
Shear-buckler
Well-known member
The free code was great. It still removed value from VIP. That is the stated reason behind the "VIP Loyalty program" to begin with. The problem is that the VIPLP does not come close to make up for what was lost and structure of the system is inherently bad and will create massive problems over time.
Ungermax
Master Artificer
And in addition, the things they put into the VIPLP imply their thinking is off base. Because there is a market for cosmetics yet people will not buy into a loyalty scheme just for that. And this is the only unique/thing of substance on the current program.
The lightning trail should be looked `at as a product line that they add to the store with a spectrum of colours. Put it in the store for 2495, but the VIP gives you one free per account when you hit the milestone. The storm cloud mount looks amazing but there is no way to get it without a 12/13 month wait. But its the coolest idea theyve had in a long time. And it will be bugged when it comes you KNOW it will. Put it in the store. TODAY! These two are great cosmetic ideas but they DO NOT belong in a loyalty program with no other way to obtain them.
The thing I cant understand is that the people who are happy with the VIP program defend it like we are risking it being removed by trying to put across that it needs to be better. There shouldnt be any opposition to us trying to get more from the VIP program even though it seems clear that we wont, if the discussion carries on for long enough and enough people dont renew, then they might look at it again. Just because someone hasnt experienced "VIP access to everything" doesnt mean they should agree with any old system that gives you only things you could easily get without spending money. If one says they will sub regardless because they want to support the game, thats fine, you do you, BUT. Do not put strawman arguments forward to my objections to this program when I am trying (like others) to get YOU more for YOUR money, as well as me for mine. Not one player will lose out if they listen to us. Join the cause!
I can guarantee that not one player would have come up with similar rewards if they were asked to design the loyalty program. You expect conveniences you cant get elsewhere from it, like mailbox access from inventory, or the ability to pick up quests from the Adventure compendium, or actual account buffs that make some sort of tangible difference (not like 5 extra bank slots or character slots). You would expect a VIP to get a BTC +1 lesser heart when they make an iconic character, or the ability to swap feats for free multiple times. A store discount while the sub is active. Not sentient XP, or hearts of wood (although the +20 was reasonable). None of these things are game or bank breaking.
Give me a 10% store discount while VIP, and the ability to get the storm cloud now, and I would subscribe for a year up front. I would do it instantly. The store discount is something one could make plenty of use of, and it would in fact encourage VIPs to buy points more often potentially because it equates to your points being worth more, which would be a great acknowledgement and I would see this as bridging the gap in value of the current system vs the old one (ie having access to all content).
Ungermax
Master Artificer
Sure but then that shouldnt by default make my subscription worth less. I am willing to subscribe if it is worth it. This is just how things go, if having access to everything with VIP goes away, and we end up unlocking stuff for free with store points, then why continue to part with our money? I have supported the game enough at this point. I may or may not continue to support it through future Xpacs, if they add sufficient content, but they want us to both subscribe AND buy Xpacs. Again, I am not fully against this, despite paying way more for one game than you could every justify for any other game, but. They have to make it worth doing both otherwise people wont.
Now I dont know how much of a representation of the overall playerbase we get from polls and such that we post, but, the recent poll about supporting the new program shows a clear indicator that the majority of people who DID vote, are not happy the way things are. Does that mean those people will never spend money on the game again? Not necessarily. Does it mean SSG will revise things? We have no reason to think so at this point. Right now do I think I will buy Myth Dranor when it comes out? Will I preorder it? The new content recently HAS been good, but I kind of want to stand my ground, so unless the preorder thing has some serious shiny stuff, then I will likely just wait til it comes to the store (it tastes better when its free anyway). I dont mind being behind the curve a bit because I still have some TRing to do and all that so Ive got plenty to keep myself occupied. We shall see what happens.