How would you buff/rework monks?

Kritikal

Well-known member
It never made any sense to me that you have to fight to raise Ki. I always pictured Monks as more passive than aggressive.

Ki should start at their max according to Wisdom and Concentration and slowly tick down while you are fighting.

It should regain if you are NOT battling. Possibly while you are running to your next battle.
Meditate to instantly regain max Ki and health.

This way you can start off with a special attack and get more of them throughout the quest.
 

misterski

Well-known member
It never made any sense to me that you have to fight to raise Ki. I always pictured Monks as more passive than aggressive.

Ki should start at their max according to Wisdom and Concentration and slowly tick down while you are fighting.

It should regain if you are NOT battling. Possibly while you are running to your next battle.
Meditate to instantly regain max Ki and health.

This way you can start off with a special attack and get more of them throughout the quest.
It does regen out of combat up to whatever the stable point is for you based on level and stats.
 

Wombat

New member
I think monks are not in a terrible position after the QP changes actually. It takes some gear swapping, but honestly, the average player can achieve the DCs needed. I've seen both sides of the story, and yes, you are seeing a lower ceiling, but the floor in general should be higher.
 

peng

Well-known member
It does regen out of combat up to whatever the stable point is for you based on level and stats.
only if you have passive ki gen
I think monks are not in a terrible position after the QP changes actually. It takes some gear swapping, but honestly, the average player can achieve the DCs needed. I've seen both sides of the story, and yes, you are seeing a lower ceiling, but the floor in general should be higher.
There are 2 problems: lower ceiling, and an entire other stat (assassinate) we now have to push. That means multiple gear/enchantment slots, an ED, enhancements, etc. So yes, technically, a player with less end game gear/past lives *could* get a higher qp DC now than before, but in practice, that would be a bit of a stretch.

The other issue is that they made this change with very little time for the community to react, without asking us if it would be a good idea, or if there were a better way to go about this kind of change.
 

Archaic

Well-known member
It would be cool if monks could jump and tumble off walls with distance based on their tumble skill. But that would take more than a number reconfiguration.
 

Nickodeamous

Well-known member
only if you have passive ki gen

There are 2 problems: lower ceiling, and an entire other stat (assassinate) we now have to push. That means multiple gear/enchantment slots, an ED, enhancements, etc. So yes, technically, a player with less end game gear/past lives *could* get a higher qp DC now than before, but in practice, that would be a bit of a stretch.

The other issue is that they made this change with very little time for the community to react, without asking us if it would be a good idea, or if there were a better way to go about this kind of change.
100% spot on Peng. I myself now feel ok, but I have the points to spend. I also slotted assassinate on my iod MA prior to this for my bird attack. But you are right, it was last min and only 1 preview and no dev replies. I've learned to live with monks "changes", but I still stick up for them every time. Lol
 

Bjond

Well-known member
I remember, we already have such conversation here, and data from U53.02 sheet confirmed my point of view... then. Now I look at the same table, and I see other, different data

Heh, dun worry about it; next time we look I'll be wrong. It's really easy to click the wrong sort, too -- I've done that more than once and only caught by thinking "uh, that's not what I expected".

I suspect that sheet is being tweaked around to suit the author. I tend to view it not so much as gospel but more as a guide to very broad trends in expected DPS output of various build styles for ranged. It's a great source for seeing different builds he's modeled, too, and maybe getting ideas for something to play for a PL.

For others, if you've never played one of the top or near-top ranged builds, give it a try sometime. The DPS they can do is astounding; eg. mine can typically help kill Irk then solo kill Zulkis in PN before the entire raid (of puggy EPL'ing chars) can bring one of the others down. The few raids I've done where everyone had builds like that were crazy fast.
 

I dont Like gimps

Well-known member
Heh, dun worry about it; next time we look I'll be wrong. It's really easy to click the wrong sort, too -- I've done that more than once and only caught by thinking "uh, that's not what I expected".

I suspect that sheet is being tweaked around to suit the author. I tend to view it not so much as gospel but more as a guide to very broad trends in expected DPS output of various build styles for ranged. It's a great source for seeing different builds he's modeled, too, and maybe getting ideas for something to play for a PL.

For others, if you've never played one of the top or near-top ranged builds, give it a try sometime. The DPS they can do is astounding; eg. mine can typically help kill Irk then solo kill Zulkis in PN before the entire raid (of puggy EPL'ing chars) can bring one of the others down. The few raids I've done where everyone had builds like that were crazy fast.
1. Thats quiet an accusation..... that ying/carpone tweaked the data do u have any reasons/proof for your suspicion?
2. "solo Kill Zulkis and irk while whole squad did rudus" Not really something to boast (LOL) Irk is practically same hp as the Puzzle constructs
so its essentially you vs Zulkis or Pug dps vs Rudus and we all know pug dps soooo...
Like u can prolly do that on a fvs Nuker
 

Aerendil

Member
A bit late to this party, but there are some really good ideas in this thread, and I'm hoping the devs at least read this at some point.

The issue of finishing moves is a strong one, and in an era where casters run around 1-shotting oranges, requiring a set of 4 button presses just to set up a finishing move is redundant. It's just never going to happen outside of solo, or VERY strategic gameplay. I really like the previous idea thrown out that we simply get access to a set of finishers (perhaps with varying ki costs) that we can hotslot. Sure, it'll take up more space on the bars, but it might mean they actually get used.

I also really like the idea of elemental strikes as imbues. They could be granted at level 1, similar to EK, and then grant +1 imbue when they would normally improve (@ 6, 12, 18). Additional imbue dice could be offered as enhancements, or as part of certain cores. This alone would improve Monk dps, especially the fast hitters like fist monk and ninja, dramatically. Henshin could use a few tweaks, but is in a decent spot already - at least for heroics.

Speaking of Ninja - the recent changes were nice, and allows them to focus on Assassination which I think is a good part of their identity anyways. However, the enhancement tree could still use some work. Poisoned darts is pure rubbish, and Diversion is questionable as well. And with the tree itself, it's always seemed odd that we start investing in Despair finishers when 2 of the 4 call for ninja poison - something you don't obtain for several levels. ToD is still very costly, and doesn't scale well at all - it really needs to double strike, crit, or *something*. Shadow Veil's 1 min duration is far too short, and could easily be fixed by X seconds per level, allowing it to scale with level. The tree offers some sneak attack, but not a massive amount to really make a difference at endgame; there's no melee power offered; an ability to AoE blind, but no means to do AoE damage (outside of WWA, which costs 3 feats); poison damage, but no immunity stripping; crit threat +1 isn't until T5, even though it's incredibly important to ninja poison; and crit mult isn't until level 18 (previously 20). It's just... weak.

I've played DDO off and on since Beta. I remember well the time of Ninja's origins, and it initially was *awesome*. But now it just hasn't aged well at all, and needs a fresh polish.
The latest balance adjustments were definitely appreciated, but more work is needed.
 
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Fisto Mk I

Well-known member
Diversion is questionable as well.
Diversion is splendid after bugfix, and be more splendid after U62 i think. 8)
Shadow Veil's 1 min duration is far too short, and could easily be fixed by X seconds per level, allowing it to scale with level.

It's enough per se, really, and if fix (boost, of course, we both know it, yea? ;) ), it must be just stance consumed ki max pool and refresh like Henshin Focus.

there's no melee power offered;

And it's good, because it's ranged tree. At least, it used as ranged currently ant it is as it must be used. I pref imbues in cores like Henshin again.
 

Northwest Ohio

New member
Psionic Monk Archetype
The Psionic Monk has focused their mind to become sharp as a razor. Their primary stat is intelligence and they use their Telekinetic Aura to damage their opponents while attacking with their Mind Blades

Must not be Lawful
Requires being centered (no changes to centered requirements )
Primary stat is intelligence
Intelligence modifier applied to AC instead of Wisdom
Intelligence modifier added to saves
Remove all elemental stances
Add Psionic stance
+2 in intelligence, +3, +4
-2 Wisdom

Per form progression: an increase to melee power, raise PRR Capp, Psionic aura deals +XdX force damage

Mind Over Matter feat – similar to Fighter’s Second Wind feat for some version of self-healing

I’ll see about working up a tree of idea’s, but I really think something along these lines would be a fun twist for monk and a way to get thinking about Monk in a different way
 
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misterski

Well-known member
Psionic Monk Archetype
The Psionic Monk has focused their mind to become sharp as a razor. Their primary stat is intelligence and they use their Telekinetic Aura to damage their opponents while attacking with their Mind Blades

Must not be Lawful
Requires being centered (no changes to centered requirements )
Primary stat is intelligence
Intelligence modifier applied to AC instead of Wisdom
Intelligence modifier added to saves
Remove all elemental stances
Add Psionic stance
+2 in intelligence, +3, +4
-2 Wisdom

Per form progression: an increase to melee power, raise PRR Capp, Psionic aura deals +XdX force damage

Mind Over Matter feat – similar to Fighter’s Second Wind feat for some version of self-healing

I’ll see about working up a tree of idea’s, but I really think something along these lines would be a fun twist for monk and a way to get thinking about Monk in a different way
Why are you hijacking this thread with this drivel? A new archetype won't buff monks in general. Make your own thread.
 

Northwest Ohio

New member
Why are you hijacking this thread with this drivel? A new archetype won't buff monks in general. Make your own thread.
Thanks for your reply Misterski. It's not hijacking since it relates to the original post and your opinion on it being drivel is noted. Hope your day is going well.

"I would also like to see them do a monk Archtype as well. Drunken Master is an obvious choice (various bonuses for drinking potions??). I'd love to see something like a "Mystic Monk", which would build on the mechanics of the sacred fist spells but expanded a bit, that takes on a type of caster monk build. There could be a case to make for a Samurai as well. Monks that are able to wear medium armor and fight with bladed weapons (similar to kensai tree).

Thoughts? Add to the list"
 

morningfrost

Well-known member
Drunken Master is a good idea, but that probably should be a Fighter Archetype and either make Chaotic alignment required or at least Not Lawful. To flip that around - yeah - a Samurai Monk Archetype could be a themed fighter-style monk requiring a Lawful alignment and allowed to wear medium armor, with a Tier 5 option to allow heavy armor.

Not sure about Samurai, but I would see Sohei as a monk Archetype.

 

Phoenicis

Savage's Husband
If memory serves, after they created the alchemst Devs made comments about how much harder that was than they expected and they had no plans to inflict that on themselves again.
 

morningfrost

Well-known member
If memory serves, after they created the alchemst Devs made comments about how much harder that was than they expected and they had no plans to inflict that on themselves again.
Yes, that's that main reason archetypes was introduced. It's much simpler to play around with feats and trees.

Personally, I don't like new classes out the core classes, I always liked D&D to be minimal (Cleric/Fighter/Magic User/Thief), AND I'm still working on the first completioninst, so I'm glad about it.
 
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