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Br4d

Well-known member
True. But I feel like a lot of people don't even effectively use the power they're capable of on their current character life. https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/lava-divers-presents-first-life-raid-push-challenge.10267 So far we've done r5 pn (with 11 people all on 1st lifers with no-raid gear, no reaper points, only a single +2 & +5 stat tome) & R2 5-man shortman; other raids/quests coming soon to the challenge.

So I guess it comes down to: Does one want the past lives to feel complete? Or is it because they believe they need all the power to function? And that's a more complex issue when people think they need it to function. I'd suggest anyone who thinks they need all (or most) past lives/RXP/etc. to function, check out the challenge and join up for it; all welcome to give it go, but not all guaranteed to enjoy that type of gameplay as fun is subjective.

My primary issue is that the product is unequal for different people using it, even among players of the same intensity and skill levels.

I'm not complaining about player skill and knowledge because that's the kind of difference you should see in an older product like this one.

I'm complaining about permanent benefits outside of player skill and knowledge that never reset except in general nerf campaigns that hurt newer players more than vets.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
Only if you run the lives treadmill, which is incredibly unnecessary in most cases. Catching up on lives is by far the least efficient way to catch up on power. There are very few things that can't be done on a first lifer.

This is another of the "past lives don't really matter" arguments.

I would argue that this was never true in DDO and it is particularly untrue now when things like racial AP's and destiny points require large numbers of past lives to accumulate.

At a deep level DDO is a founders game that continually defrauds most of the later joiners.

BTW, nobody needs to respond to explain that lots of money and playing lots of hours can let anybody prosper. Very few people would start DDO if they understood the real deal.
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
This is another of the "past lives don't really matter" arguments.

I would argue that this was never true in DDO and it is particularly untrue now when things like racial AP's and destiny points require large numbers of past lives to accumulate.

At a deep level DDO is a founders game that continually defrauds most of the later joiners.

BTW, nobody needs to respond to explain that lots of money and playing lots of hours can let anybody prosper. Very few people would start DDO if they understood the real deal.
What things are there in DDO that:
- at least 1-5% of the DDO player base does? (i.e. not including r10 chronoscope/FoM/skellies/etc.)
- can't be done on a first lifer?
I think there are very few, if any (if there are some, I want to go try them now :)). Past lives matter, but if you're looking to catch up with other players, you can catch up and surpass most other players in the time it would take you to grind a few past lives by focusing on non-past-life things. Your average group of 11 players with a fair number of past lives isn't going to have a smooth time rolling through r5 PN, but I don't think any of the first lifers used for that had more than 100 hours at most invested into them, even if we include gear farming that was passed over from other characters (the equivalent of 5 lives). Most were probably under 50. Figure out what you actually want to do in DDO, then get the things you need fo that.
 
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Discount Gandalf

Active member
I just think its funny when people who can play this game with a blindfold and one hand tied behind their back make first life characters to try to prove a point that new players don't have it as hard as they do. As if that is the experience that a bunch of newbies would ever have. It's not even close.
 
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PraetorPlato

Well-known member
I just think its funny when people who can play this game with a blindfold and one hand tied behind their back make first life characters to try to prove a point that new players don't have it as hard as they do. As if that is the experience that a bunch of newbies would ever have. It's not even close.
Sure, but that doesn't mean that the thing to focus on to catch up is past lives, or that there's a insurmountable grind to catch up—that means you should play the content you actually want to play and get good at that content to catch up.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
I just think its funny when people who can play this game with a blindfold and one hand tied behind their back make first life characters to try to prove a point that new players don't have it as hard as they do. As if that is the experience that a bunch of newbies would ever have. It's not even close.
New players don't know the quests/raids, they don't know how to build nor gear, they don't various game mechanics, they don't what monsters can do what, etc. It doesn't matter what you hand them in term of character builds, they'll still struggle and have a big learning curve. The 1st lifers I'm running and give builds for aren't for just for "newbies", they're mostly aimed for people that've been playing for a while but might not run X or Y class or playstyle. Sure, new players can use them as a nice foundation for playing, but it won't offset the other obstacles that being new brings; but they are likely to be way better than the built-in paths DDO offers for creation choices. A more casual player likely won't be able to eek the same performance out of a build that a hardcore vet might, but it shows the potential that is there in those builds. (I also like using people's builds that get posted that are for playstyles I don't normally run; it's good to have info about other setups and even variations on classes/playstyles I run all the time are fun to read up on and get ideas from).
 

dur

aka Cybersquirt
Esp players not familiar with DnD rules - then there's SSG/DBG interpretion n experimentation (AND munging up mechs but, whatever)
 

Guntango

Well-known member
It takes years of playing 10-15 hours a week to make a real dent in all the backlogged power.

One of the reasons that I go back and forth between my main and the low-power alts is I feel like a sucker putting time into a venture (gaining most of the power in the game) that I will never complete. Every time a new system is added to the ongoing backlog I realize the bait and switch that is going on and I am just glad that I'm not one of the people trapped in the grind.
Nah.
 

voenixa121

Well-known member
Only if you run the lives treadmill, which is incredibly unnecessary in most cases. Catching up on lives is by far the least efficient way to catch up on power. There are very few things that can't be done on a first lifer.
Thats just more argument to reset the power levels. So just get rid of all the past life bonuses and everyone has a fair chance, right? The game is perfectly playable without all that, so noone should complain. Or just give all the bonuses to everyone when a new expansion comes out. Lets say a new race is released, then everyone gets all the racial pls except the newest one. Since there are other better ways to get powerful, this should be fair.
So what is that mysterious very efficient way to catch up in power that can replace all those racial and epic past lives?
 
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PraetorPlato

Well-known member
Thats just more argument to reset the power levels. So just get rid of all the past life bonuses and everyone has a fair chance, right? The game is perfectly playable without all that, so noone should complain. Or just give all the bonuses to everyone when a new expansion comes out. Lets say a new race is released, then everyone gets all the racial pls except the newest one. Since there are other better ways to get powerful, this should be fair.
So what is that mysterious very efficient way to catch up in power that can replace all those racial and epic past lives?
Nah, because it's good to have a long-term grind to retain players. I do think a racial catchup would be nice.

Perfect gear, better build, RXP, better tactics, swap items are all much faster ways to gain power.
 
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PraetorPlato

Well-known member
This is why we will never get catch up mechanisms. The people that got everything already are just too happy with how it is right now.
I don't have much of anything, lol, and you cut out the bit where I said a racial catchup would be nice. I just think it's silly to pretend that you need to grind lives for years to set up, and that's bad advice to newer players—grinding lives to "catch up" is pretty much the worst way to get to the point where you can enjoy the game and do the content you want to, or even to gain power. Grinding gear for an extra 2 con is equivalent to grinding 4 full lives, meaning if you can improve your gear by 2 con in less than 80 hours, it's faster than lives (for some of the most impactful lives).
 
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PersonMan

Well-known member
Not sure if this has been addressed.

If I buy a full year VIP:

  • April 30th 2024 - Will I only get 11/12 rewards since [my] VIP will end April 30th 2025?
  • May 1st 2024 - Will I only get 11/12 rewards since I have to wait until I have "completed" a month to start claiming?
Math tough, need sleep.
 
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Eme

Well-known member
New players don't know the quests/raids, ...
been playing since launch, and there are so many quests I just can't even remember where they are or how to get to, the LFM panel and orientation of the game has become such an unhelpful, illogical and convoluted mess, lacking in basic needs, and I can see that being a major turn off, especially for newcomers
 

Sylvado

Well-known member
Not sure if this has been addressed.

If I buy a full year VIP:
  • April 30th 2024 - Will I only get 11/12 rewards since VIP will end April 30th 2025?
  • May 1st 2024 - Will I only get 11/12 rewards since I have to wait until I have "completed" a month to start claiming?
It doesn't end in 2025, that is back on page 1
 

PersonMan

Well-known member
It doesn't end in 2025, that is back on page 1
If I buy a year of VIP my VIP ends after that year, unless I buy more than a year.

That was not my issue. Basically I thought the pickup worked a little differently, instead of going to bed decided to read wiki stuff, ended up on the VIP program and saw "If I subscribe on say, June 10th, when do I get the first month’s gift? You will get the 1st Time Signup Bonus Gift immediately, and you would be eligible to get your 1st Completed Months gift after July 1st. " and then confused myself about how time works apparently. Carry on.
 
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Shear-buckler

Well-known member
I don't have much of anything, lol, and you cut out the bit where I said a racial catchup would be nice. I just think it's silly to pretend that you need to grind lives for years to set up, and that's bad advice to newer players—grinding lives to "catch up" is pretty much the worst way to get to the point where you can enjoy the game and do the content you want to, or even to gain power. Grinding gear for an extra 2 con is equivalent to grinding 4 full lives, meaning if you can improve your gear by 2 con in less than 80 hours, it's faster than lives (for some of the most impactful lives).

Past lives are important for stats -> catch up mechanics are important.

Past lives are not important for stats -> catch up mechanics are important.

I am still waiting for the anti-catch up lobby to point of a single negative aspect of the catch up mechanics we already have gotten.
 

PraetorPlato

Well-known member
Past lives are important for stats -> catch up mechanics are important.

Past lives are not important for stats -> catch up mechanics are important.

I am still waiting for the anti-catch up lobby to point of a single negative aspect of the catch up mechanics we already have gotten.
I’m not anti catchup! I’m pro catchup! I just think as advice to players, running unfocused TRs to catch up, or saying that’s the primary way to gain power, is really bad advice.
 

Ike

Well-known member
I'm with PraetorPlato on this one. A first lifer can do just as well as a triple completionist.

As much as I dislike a specific group on Argonnessen, their first lifer group is showing you don't need past lives to do it. In fact, it's more impressive when a first lifer can compete, and doesn't need that power backing them up.
 
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