Reaper tree Revamp

[Rincewind]

First, I would like to say that I rather keep how reapers works know, it allows better customization for our characters for ppl without 150 or more reapers points.

With that first statement out of the way, I would like to talk about what Sev have been hinting this year the changes to how reapers bonus is going to work coming the revamp of the system.

So, if I got this right, what he proposes is that there is going to be just one tree that will give you certain kind of bonuses related to how much reaper exp you have, the idea behind this is to allow veterans to share some of that power to newer players by giving them a fraction of the power of the party leader if theirs is lower than that. As a returner player myself I see the value of this, since when I got back the reaper system was well underway and i got 0 reaper points, so it was kind of painful to try to play endgame content. and this system this idea is not compatible with how reaper tree is right now. So, we are in a situation where we are sacrificing flexibility for availability for new players. But I would like to add a middle point. What if we allow players to choose a reaper path So you got your tank, reaper path, your melee path, range path, hybrid path ( for EDK for example) and other paths that are fixed in what they provide but are still giving a choice as to what you can get from your reaper points. This would add the value of giving devs some room to add more "reaper paths" in the future or balance them easily too. while giving us some choice back.
So how does this work in the game? well your first level ( and class) define your predefined "reaper path" so in case you don't choose one yourself the game will still provide you with whatever path it's better for your basic class role. And then you can go to the reaper windows and choose another path, this can be done 1 time for free each life and with platinum after with or other form of restriction if needed. You can even put a description of each tree or show what bonus you get at certain thresholds.
I hope we can have a good discussion about this that doesn't go around "don't change reapers trees" because that's a different conversation.

 

[jotmon]

Imagine instead you got to pick 1 of 5 different "reaper tracks" that have different focuses. That could easily be far more build defining and playstyle enabling than the current system. It should not be prefefined by your class other than what track you start on, and that is just to help new players.

It will take imagination to believe any change to reaper points will help players.

There is no purpose to normal/hard/elite if Dev's intend to tailor reaper to help new players

 

[Col Kurtz]

lmao...the phrase ''new players'' is getting a lot of airtime in this thread. Let's face the fact that retention of new players has little to do with to reaper or not to reaper. Dev's have practically admitted with this reaper sharing idea that adding a huge range of difficulties was not a great idea and lfm grouping has suffered in general. I think the sharing point idea is more based on time. Not everyone has 3-4 hours a day to burn on farming reaper points. But, there are many players who are more than experienced enough to contribute to high reaper groups that will never have 150 points built up. A better idea than sharing points would be to remove the healing debuff on most of the reaper difficulty (r1-r6 maybe?). That would allow more casual players to catch up a bit and broaden the pool of players to group with.

fighting back and forth about sharing the reaper points deflects from coming up with better ideas, and sharing reaper points feels like the devs are grasping at straws

 

[VinoeWhines]

Here is the bottom line: NEW PLAYERS.
New Players are New Players, what on Forgotten Realms are they doing in Reaper? Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper.
You don't enter a job and hang out with the senior advisors when you start from the bottom, you work up to it.
Why is this even a discussion? New Players shouldn't be in an R10 quest, what kind of a setup to fail concept is that? I'm surprised ddo didn't level gate Reaper level, by Reaper points, and I'm glad they didn't...enter at your own risk. Freedom of Movement to go in a dungeon difficulty.

Again NEW PLAYER. That already disqualifies this discussion. Not in them being able to participate but doing a Me Too movement Power Squatting on Power that was never theirs to begin with, until they put in the repetitions.

Now redoing the Reaper Trees = yes, that is definitely a discussion, again it sucks that as an Assassin Rogue I had to go to Caster to get my Intelligence up as an only way to raise my Assassinate DC, even if I went DEX based there's no Assassinate DC in the other Trees.

I also understand the stance of why did DDO introduce a difficulty and then give an option to boost players for attempting a supposed MOAR difficult Challenge in the first place? Reaper should not be about Nerfing a player, but BOOSTING the mobs inside.
Players should keep their power, that was spent hours and hours acquiring and the mobs should just be stronger(base it off the multiplier of the nerf players are getting ).
Example instead of reducing players Melee/Range/Spell Power damage, increase the appropriate amount of HP a mob would need to multiply the loss taken away from a player. So if in a normal quest a player can do 1000 hit damage, just increase the HP of mobs to 4 times that amount per skull.
Many will complain about, it will take longer to complete having to chug through mobs HP, then the base line question is, what is the purpose of Reaper? What exactly is Reaper about?
Oh, make it difficult, but then again give out free Spell Point cookies .
Oh, make it difficult, but give back power to players that we nerfed inside.
Oh, make it difficult by handicapping heals for the sake of difficulty in healing.

I understand the concept and it did sound interesting on first and second pass through, as, exciting an new and "this is gonna be a difficult and scary" challenge and I will admit people WERE SCARED in entering Reaper for the first time and seeing Reapers, everybody was huddling and creeping together like Scooby and Friends.
But now the mystery, fear, intrigue is all gone and certain classes are zerging (and Soloing) through R10 like it was Epic Casual, with unlimited GI JOE power.

Reaper 10 is still very hard for many, that is true.
What changed it for some, was class' that the level of abilities (certain classes) some can do in dungeons as in Mass CC a room, then Mass Damage a room, then Mass CC with another ability again, then Mass Damage a room to finish it off in about 3 turns, doesn't seem very Reapery and then give certain classes the ability to even shrink down the already short timers of abilities/SLA's/spells down to 2-4 seconds a pop and others are hard cap stuck at 12 seconds in their Prestige abilities.(everyone should eat cake)
Why give concessions to only certain classes and not others?

What was Reaper difficulty again?
Buff the mobs instead, don't nerf the players, then they wouldn't need to get all those lost abilities back from the Reaper Trees.
Though by now I think we are already here and too far in it, many including myself have spent countless, countless and countless of months, going over forums, trial and error, repair costs, frustrations in building up our Reaper points and the biggest, and the most expensive commodity = Time, in building our characters up.

I would agree in maybe adding Trees to the Reaper Tree to give more options to classes and builds.

Don't keep nerfing all casters that never played a part in destroying a room full of mobs in 2-4 attacks. I don't even play as a caster.
For me the double strike nerf removed my ability(TWF) to hit 3 at times( or rarely 4) mobs at once and did not help in reducing lag to the point at all where the change warranted the removal of the double strike/shot.
The bait and switch promise of a new Epic Destiny promise of more choices, was false in regards to what I had before, in being able to twist options that would help my particular build.

As a first lifer, before I had my main Tier VI abilities with a Tier 4, Tier 3 and Tier 1 and Tier 1(that's 4 different side choices).
My Epic Destiny points now don't equate to the amount of Destiny points I should have.(I completed and filled all the Epic Destinies fully and bought +3 more points from the ddo store plus I bought more Epic Destiny Twist points as well(I think +2 or +3 Twists points)

 

[Bjond]

Newbies aren't going to be found (much) in R10, though if you have a decent mentor/guide you can certainly do it.

Newbies are going to be found in R1. It's the defacto standard for all groups under the level-cap. So much so that you're unlikely to find any group to join that is not R1.

Heh ... Now on youtube: "Newbies in Reaper!" .. oh the horror, the drama, the comedy, and the blood. Watch as our Intrepid Hero bravely challenges the great beast!

 

[VinoeWhines]

I might of been obtuse in this discussion in regards to Reaper difficulty and the new player in leveling from 1-20 or even 21-32 for the first time. I was more or less discussing end game at level 32 or even 30 when that was cap with new players entering high reaper.
In regards to leveling from 1-20 on high Reaper as the norm, I can see that being daunting for a new player, especially if the TR train scoots by them and they board that train.
Since I don't really TR at all, especially now with Reaper core bonus' at play. Is it really a thing were new players can't get in a group(or the group hounds them for not being uber) on Heroic Normal or Hard/Elite?

 

[VinoeWhines]

Long ago, I've had people(new players?) enter my lfm's(R10's) and start opening doors and run to me/us and bring mobs our way as if there trying to do a Dave Chappelle and say, "Gotcha Bit..**!" ambush.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I might of been obtuse in this discussion in regards to Reaper difficulty and the new player in leveling from 1-20 or even 21-32 for the first time. I was more or less discussing end game at level 32 or even 30 when that was cap with new players entering high reaper.
In regards to leveling from 1-20 on high Reaper as the norm, I can see that being daunting for a new player, especially if the TR train scoots by them and they board that train.
Since I don't really TR at all, especially now with Reaper core bonus' at play. Is it really a thing were new players can't get in a group(or the group hounds them for not being uber) on Heroic Normal or Hard/Elite?

R1 is the standard difficulty, it's unreasonable to expect new players to isolate themselves. The change is not aimed at high reaper endgame groups.

 

[Archest]

na sharing reaper experience points is a bad idea, its unfair to those who have earned them. you want to stream line the point selection process into a single tree .. if it helps prevent lag and game freeze sure. you shouldn't be able to play r10 unless you have r10 ability to survive.

 

[ForeverZero]

There is absolutely a need for it. R10 is not all that matters. Spending dev time to make new players less of a liability and increasing their ability to keep up with established players in standard LFMs is worthwhile.

Exactly, r1 matters too, and you don't need to give anyone anything to do it, your point is moot. Spending dev time to make new players less of a liability isn't top priority. R1 which most lfm's are doing is easy enough for first lifers to listen to instruction and not be a problem to party. That seems to be your opinion . Which is fine. But new players and r1 is fine as is. They barely die most of the time. But new player retention in reaper is moot, if they leave becuase the game is bugged all to the ground. Abilities and effects no reg 8% of the time. And too many other issues to mention.

lmao...the phrase ''new players'' is getting a lot of airtime in this thread. Let's face the fact that retention of new players has little to do with to reaper or not to reaper. Dev's have practically admitted with this reaper sharing idea that adding a huge range of difficulties was not a great idea and lfm grouping has suffered in general. I think the sharing point idea is more based on time. Not everyone has 3-4 hours a day to burn on farming reaper points. But, there are many players who are more than experienced enough to contribute to high reaper groups that will never have 150 points built up. A better idea than sharing points would be to remove the healing debuff on most of the reaper difficulty (r1-r6 maybe?). That would allow more casual players to catch up a bit and broaden the pool of players to group with.

fighting back and forth about sharing the reaper points deflects from coming up with better ideas, and sharing reaper points feels like the devs are grasping at straws

No healing debuff on r1-6 is probably a bit too much, reducing it signifcantly is better imo. Some reduced healing should be a starting point, but 60% less healing in r1 alone is a bit, excessive? Bringing it down to a much more reasonable starting point seems adequate. R1-3 could be changed. R3 1-20 is fairly easy with most parties, and usually yields about 100k reaper exp which is plenty to start off for most.

Maybe in coming days I can try to think of more ideas to post.

Here is the bottom line: NEW PLAYERS.
New Players are New Players, what on Forgotten Realms are they doing in Reaper? Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper.
You don't enter a job and hang out with the senior advisors when you start from the bottom, you work up to it.
Why is this even a discussion? New Players shouldn't be in an R10 quest, what kind of a setup to fail concept is that? I'm surprised ddo didn't level gate Reaper level, by Reaper points, and I'm glad they didn't...enter at your own risk. Freedom of Movement to go in a dungeon difficulty.

Again NEW PLAYER. That already disqualifies this discussion. Not in them being able to participate but doing a Me Too movement Power Squatting on Power that was never theirs to begin with, until they put in the repetitions.

Now redoing the Reaper Trees = yes, that is definitely a discussion, again it sucks that as an Assassin Rogue I had to go to Caster to get my Intelligence up as an only way to raise my Assassinate DC, even if I went DEX based there's no Assassinate DC in the other Trees.

I also understand the stance of why did DDO introduce a difficulty and then give an option to boost players for attempting a supposed MOAR difficult Challenge in the first place? Reaper should not be about Nerfing a player, but BOOSTING the mobs inside.
Players should keep their power, that was spent hours and hours acquiring and the mobs should just be stronger(base it off the multiplier of the nerf players are getting ).
Example instead of reducing players Melee/Range/Spell Power damage, increase the appropriate amount of HP a mob would need to multiply the loss taken away from a player. So if in a normal quest a player can do 1000 hit damage, just increase the HP of mobs to 4 times that amount per skull.
Many will complain about, it will take longer to complete having to chug through mobs HP, then the base line question is, what is the purpose of Reaper? What exactly is Reaper about?
Oh, make it difficult, but then again give out free Spell Point cookies .
Oh, make it difficult, but give back power to players that we nerfed inside.
Oh, make it difficult by handicapping heals for the sake of difficulty in healing.

I understand the concept and it did sound interesting on first and second pass through, as, exciting an new and "this is gonna be a difficult and scary" challenge and I will admit people WERE SCARED in entering Reaper for the first time and seeing Reapers, everybody was huddling and creeping together like Scooby and Friends.
But now the mystery, fear, intrigue is all gone and certain classes are zerging (and Soloing) through R10 like it was Epic Casual, with unlimited GI JOE power.

Reaper 10 is still very hard for many, that is true.
What changed it for some, was class' that the level of abilities (certain classes) some can do in dungeons as in Mass CC a room, then Mass Damage a room, then Mass CC with another ability again, then Mass Damage a room to finish it off in about 3 turns, doesn't seem very Reapery and then give certain classes the ability to even shrink down the already short timers of abilities/SLA's/spells down to 2-4 seconds a pop and others are hard cap stuck at 12 seconds in their Prestige abilities.(everyone should eat cake)
Why give concessions to only certain classes and not others?

What was Reaper difficulty again?
Buff the mobs instead, don't nerf the players, then they wouldn't need to get all those lost abilities back from the Reaper Trees.
Though by now I think we are already here and too far in it, many including myself have spent countless, countless and countless of months, going over forums, trial and error, repair costs, frustrations in building up our Reaper points and the biggest, and the most expensive commodity = Time, in building our characters up.

I would agree in maybe adding Trees to the Reaper Tree to give more options to classes and builds.

Don't keep nerfing all casters that never played a part in destroying a room full of mobs in 2-4 attacks. I don't even play as a caster.
For me the double strike nerf removed my ability(TWF) to hit 3 at times( or rarely 4) mobs at once and did not help in reducing lag to the point at all where the change warranted the removal of the double strike/shot.
The bait and switch promise of a new Epic Destiny promise of more choices, was false in regards to what I had before, in being able to twist options that would help my particular build.

As a first lifer, before I had my main Tier VI abilities with a Tier 4, Tier 3 and Tier 1 and Tier 1(that's 4 different side choices).
My Epic Destiny points now don't equate to the amount of Destiny points I should have.(I completed and filled all the Epic Destinies fully and bought +3 more points from the ddo store plus I bought more Epic Destiny Twist points as well(I think +2 or +3 Twists points)

I agree with the first bit about new players being new. As someone once said, put in the work, put in the hours. And your post just affirms that, you decided to put in the work to get where you are. The caster nerfs are a bit much it was mainly druids, alchs, and sorcs doing the nuking, but they ended up nerfing all casters, even the casters that couldn't do anything before, they can't do anything now, cept it's worse. I'm strictly a melee and it just seems again, like a massive middle finger to everyone that wasn't the problem.

Newbies aren't going to be found (much) in R10, though if you have a decent mentor/guide you can certainly do it.

Newbies are going to be found in R1. It's the defacto standard for all groups under the level-cap. So much so that you're unlikely to find any group to join that is not R1.

Heh ... Now on youtube: "Newbies in Reaper!" .. oh the horror, the drama, the comedy, and the blood. Watch as our Intrepid Hero bravely challenges the great beast!

This. Newbies aren't gonna be found in r1. Which is a completely normal and adequate starting point. Nothing needs to be done here imo. And trying to cater strictly to the 50 new players seems like a big middle finger to the rest of the playerbase who in general have been loyal enough to stay over all the nonsense. Fixing the issues should be priority, for list of some, see first part of my post.

Long ago, I've had people(new players?) enter my lfm's(R10's) and start opening doors and run to me/us and bring mobs our way as if there trying to do a Dave Chappelle and say, "Gotcha Bit..**!" ambush.

I've had a cleric join me for r10 sharn with 600 hp. I told them I'd let them stay for a bit, but they'll quickly see that it's not gonna be easy for them. They'll be getting 1 shot and be dead all the time. They were certainly a new player. They lasted 2 quests before they left on their own and apologized for it. that's just the nature of the beast. I think most people can tell their limits and adjust accodingly.

R1 is the standard difficulty, it's unreasonable to expect new players to isolate themselves. The change is not aimed at high reaper endgame groups.

beating a dead horse here, but yeah, it's unreasonable for new players to not do r1 which they are perfectly able to do as is with little to no difficulty if they listen.

na sharing reaper experience points is a bad idea, its unfair to those who have earned them. you want to stream line the point selection process into a single tree .. if it helps prevent lag and game freeze sure. you shouldn't be able to play r10 unless you have r10 ability to survive.

This. We worked for it with all the nonsense that came to it. If we can do it, and share the experiences along the way, it's fine. Sharing points is a bad idea. But I'm okay with tweaks and changes to the difficulty itself possibly. as stated elsewhere, r1 is fine for newbies to start playing in groups. as long as they listen and aren't being a menace. Quests are always worse when people don't listen or understand what's gonna happen, regardless if they're a new or veteran player.


tldr: Imo there are better options to spend developer time than trying to fix an almost non existant problem for newer players. There's no reason not to work on other issues that are detrimental to ALL players, not just a minority.

 

[Bjond]

This. We worked for it with all the nonsense that came to it. If we can do it, and share the experiences along the way, it's fine. Sharing points is a bad idea.

I dislike the "we worked for it so they should too" argument. If all brand new accounts that sub for a year are given 3 free PLs, for instance, it doesn't steal anything at all from me. Instead, it's highly likely to give me a stronger newbie pug to group with.

I very strongly agree with not sharing reaper points, though: it destroys the reward for running reaper. As soon as you have shared points, you also have much less incentive to farm RXP. We need newbies to WANT more RXP. That gives them a reason to join the scary groups.

A big milestone for a new character is to reach 21 reaper points so they get their nice HP bump both in and out of reaper. It's VERY easy to reach those 21 points. Sharing significantly erodes the big early RXP wins, which steals that nice feeling of "making progress" that keeps people coming back to an MMO.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Exactly, r1 matters too, and you don't need to give anyone anything to do it, your point is moot. Spending dev time to make new players less of a liability isn't top priority. R1 which most lfm's are doing is easy enough for first lifers to listen to instruction and not be a problem to party. That seems to be your opinion . Which is fine. But new players and r1 is fine as is. They barely die most of the time. But new player retention in reaper is moot, if they leave becuase the game is bugged all to the ground. Abilities and effects no reg 8% of the time. And too many other issues to mention.

Everything the devs can possible spend time on is not top priority to someone.

 

[Archest]

anyone can play r1 if they understand the tools they need to survive and to hit stuff (incorporeal) work as a team and stuff.
there no need for a free ride. earning the reaper points is no different than earning tokens to tr or other objectives. it takes awhile to get reaper points its the game. the grind the money maker which keeps you coming back to play to achieve the milestone.

 

[Ahpuch]

A big milestone for a new character is to reach 21 reaper points so they get their nice HP bump both in and out of reaper. It's VERY easy to reach those 21 points. Sharing significantly erodes the big early RXP wins, which steals that nice feeling of "making progress" that keeps people coming back to an MMO.

I would expect that if they did a sharing model that would be tied with a predefined Reaper Bonus system that gets rid of the current customization (and possibly the 21 point HP bump).

I hope that SSG has backed off this plan. If they feel that it is needed then what it really should be telling them is that reaper trees were a bad idea. If that is the case just remove them and find different bonuses for RXP that do not change characters power in reaper quests.

 

[ForeverZero]

Everything the devs can possible spend time on is not top priority to someone.

Can't tell if you're trolling or not but in case you aren't;

Bruh what kind of delusional world do you live in where things that AREN'T working properly and needs fixing that affect legitimately everyone or realistically an overwhelming majority of people.

The game doesn't revolve only on new players. They're a nessessity for game health. But only trying to give them an edge where they don't realistically need it is a legitimate definintion of a waste of reaources if thats your whole base arguement.

How can you even attempt to justify the flawed logic of priortising something that benefits barely anyone vs benefiting quite litterally everyone. I feel you're just trying to grasp at straws the same way the devs are but in case you need a reminder on things that aren't working as they should heres a quick and dirty run down of stuff affecting more people *including new players*

1. Lag that is still a thing. And worse at times than previously. (Everyone especially at peak hours)
2. Broken skills and abilties.
3. Effects not applying the right values on GEAR (last i checked everyone had gear) guess you run naked. I respect it. Old naked shrouds were lit.
4. Certain enemies bypassing any and all feasible levels of fortification. Whether or not its intended or not. Who knows.

These were a few i could think of on my break at work. But it is what it is. There are certainly better things to prioritise. After we fix these issues first then we can continue this attempt to make qol changes like reaper reworks.

If you were trolling rip my break at work. But it was fun at least.

 

[ForeverZero]

I dislike the "we worked for it so they should too" argument. If all brand new accounts that sub for a year are given 3 free PLs, for instance, it doesn't steal anything at all from me. Instead, it's highly likely to give me a stronger newbie pug to group with.

I very strongly agree with not sharing reaper points, though: it destroys the reward for running reaper. As soon as you have shared points, you also have much less incentive to farm RXP. We need newbies to WANT more RXP. That gives them a reason to join the scary groups.

A big milestone for a new character is to reach 21 reaper points so they get their nice HP bump both in and out of reaper. It's VERY easy to reach those 21 points. Sharing significantly erodes the big early RXP wins, which steals that nice feeling of "making progress" that keeps people coming back to an MMO.

I can see the point of disliking the mentality of "we worked for it so you should too" but i think something is being misused specifically.

I'm for sharing the knowledge and experience that comes with anything done in ddo. If it can help someone learn and maybe make others learn. I'm strictly against points being given to people that didnt earn them since its directly related to me. If they want the points im happy to teach reaper strats, potebtial gear setups, everything I've learned my experience and knowledge so its already made easier for others. Theres no need to make it free. Time is the most valueable resource people have. When its gone. You've lost it forever. At least let them acknowledge that giving stuff away that was earned is not a route that should be gone down.

I'll sum up the last 2 points you made into one since i have less opinion on those matters. As atated above i do want all players to do reaper. Its not as hard or difficult as people make it out to be. Its more difficult than elite for sure. But thats about it. You can typically make sensible descions and get out of a sticky situation in reaper and thats a bonus to teach.

21 reaper points is easily attainable i agree. A few buddies and I met a willing person to learn end game content. So we took them through some r10s, we did most of the sagas and r10s that weekend. And he went from 5 to mid 20s i believe 26 or 27 points in a weekend. I believe it was a reaper weekend though so that did skew results a bit. But 50% pot with most r10 content done each life is over 1m reaper exp. Im just talking bout 30+ content. I just do slayers from 20-30 since questing is boring imo. Though i might check how much 20-30 is reaper xp wise on like r1 for grouping speed scenarios.

anyone can play r1 if they understand the tools they need to survive and to hit stuff (incorporeal) work as a team and stuff.
there no need for a free ride. earning the reaper points is no different than earning tokens to tr or other objectives. it takes awhile to get reaper points its the game. the grind the money maker which keeps you coming back to play to achieve the milestone.

Agreed. Theres a methodical approach to reaper now. Vs when it was released and we were all kinda confused for a while with our thumbs up our butts. We as a community despite its percieved toxicity is generally pretty helpful with helping new players

I would expect that if they did a sharing model that would be tied with a predefined Reaper Bonus system that gets rid of the current customization (and possibly the 21 point HP bump).

I hope that SSG has backed off this plan. If they feel that it is needed then what it really should be telling them is that reaper trees were a bad idea. If that is the case just remove them and find different bonuses for RXP that do not change characters power in reaper quests.

Thats also sort of what i was thinking bout the 21 reaper point bump. I hope if they do change it it's decently comparable. I'd be fine with a bit less hp. It doesn't really help as much as one would think at r10. But its a significant boost below r1-6 usefulness ends after probs r8?

 

[Shear-buckler]

Can't tell if you're trolling or not but in case you aren't;

Bruh what kind of delusional world do you live in where things that AREN'T working properly and needs fixing that affect legitimately everyone or realistically an overwhelming majority of people.

The game doesn't revolve only on new players. They're a nessessity for game health. But only trying to give them an edge where they don't realistically need it is a legitimate definintion of a waste of reaources if thats your whole base arguement.

How can you even attempt to justify the flawed logic of priortising something that benefits barely anyone vs benefiting quite litterally everyone. I feel you're just trying to grasp at straws the same way the devs are but in case you need a reminder on things that aren't working as they should heres a quick and dirty run down of stuff affecting more people *including new players*

1. Lag that is still a thing. And worse at times than previously. (Everyone especially at peak hours)
2. Broken skills and abilties.
3. Effects not applying the right values on GEAR (last i checked everyone had gear) guess you run naked. I respect it. Old naked shrouds were lit.
4. Certain enemies bypassing any and all feasible levels of fortification. Whether or not its intended or not. Who knows.

These were a few i could think of on my break at work. But it is what it is. There are certainly better things to prioritise. After we fix these issues first then we can continue this attempt to make qol changes like reaper reworks.

If you were trolling rip my break at work. But it was fun at least.

The pormpt for the change is to reduce lag. The benefit to new players is something that can be cheaply done with the new system.

Also, reported.

 

[ForeverZero]

The pormpt for the change is to reduce lag. The benefit to new players is something that can be cheaply done with the new system.

Also, reported.

My point still stands and funnily enough you just proved my point anyway. Lag reducing efforts haven't really been great. And trying to justify reaper points being the issue seems odd since THEY DID do a reaper change that reduced lag in reaper with the points already. Why try to do anything else to it?

Since you're constantly harping about new players this new players that. New players dont have reaper points. So they're not contributing to the lag of reaper points. I have no idea what point youre even trying to make anymore. But it doesn't matter.

Also, reported for having a conversation? That's crazy. Though nothing will come of it since I didn't do anything wrong. To get upset at others for speaking their minds and opinions in an open medium is petty and glum.

 

[Cyran]

I can see the point of disliking the mentality of "we worked for it so you should too" but i think something is being misused specifically.

I'm for sharing the knowledge and experience that comes with anything done in ddo. If it can help someone learn and maybe make others learn. I'm strictly against points being given to people that didnt earn them since its directly related to me. If they want the points im happy to teach reaper strats, potebtial gear setups, everything I've learned my experience and knowledge so its already made easier for others. Theres no need to make it free. Time is the most valueable resource people have. When its gone. You've lost it forever. At least let them acknowledge that giving stuff away that was earned is not a route that should be gone down.

I look at it differently. You only getting the reaper points if someone else in group have it. I look at it more like inviting someone to your airship for buffs if they not in a guild that have the buffs.

As for the value in learning to play without reaper points on the way to earning them. The reality is that not how it going to work. Either A) they playing in static groups so it really don't matter since no one in group have reaper points to share or they pugging and in that case what "earning" reaper points mean is mostly watching people in the group with all the reaper point do everything. This not teaching them to be better players. I not saying sharing will fix this issue but it might keep them alive to actually do stuff and probably learn more about how to play the game then the reverse.

As for you don't need reaper points to contribute while 100% accurate it don't apply to people with no knowledge of game. There a reason most game start easy and get harder the further in you go, new players not going to have the knowledge to stay alive in reaper without reaper points. If they did not join with a static group then puging on lower then reaper just hard to do. The person on a alt with no reaper point but main is a completionism sure they be perfectly fine with no reaper points but that not the target for sharing.

There also the new players that just naturally good at gaming who will be fine without reaper points but they also the type that giving them reaper points not going to harm the speed in which they learn the game. They be just fine and in no time have plenty of reaper points of there own.

Sharing reaper points is better for newer players and probably the health of game. Now personally I hate what they suggest they need to do in order to implement sharing by making it linear since I prefer choice but that a separate issue.

 

[Boondocks Mike]

The positions in these threads essentially boil down to "might as well remove reaper points" against " don't take away my stuff".

For people in the second group I would ask two questions:

1) Discounting new player acquisition/retention, discounting old player burn out or dissatisfaction, do you think removing reaper points/trees would be a healthy change for the game (not you personally, the game).

2) Regardless of your response to the first question, why did you play the game? Why did you spend the money? To enjoy your time playing through the content the game offered, or to list your past lives in your bio so you could SS it and put it on your fridge?

Reaper was introduced because "there was no challenge" and there was "nothing to do". People now are asking for reaper 11 because "there is no challenge" and "there is nothing to do". You are your own worst enemy in the context of being able to enjoy this game.

 

[ForeverZero]

I look at it differently. You only getting the reaper points if someone else in group have it. I look at it more like inviting someone to your airship for buffs if they not in a guild that have the buffs.

As for the value in learning to play without reaper points on the way to earning them. The reality is that not how it going to work. Either A) they playing in static groups so it really don't matter since no one in group have reaper points to share or they pugging and in that case what "earning" reaper points mean is mostly watching people in the group with all the reaper point do everything. This not teaching them to be better players. I not saying sharing will fix this issue but it might keep them alive to actually do stuff and probably learn more about how to play the game then the reverse.

As for you don't need reaper points to contribute while 100% accurate it don't apply to people with no knowledge of game. There a reason most game start easy and get harder the further in you go, new players not going to have the knowledge to stay alive in reaper without reaper points. If they did not join with a static group then puging on lower then reaper just hard to do. The person on a alt with no reaper point but main is a completionism sure they be perfectly fine with no reaper points but that not the target for sharing.

There also the new players that just naturally good at gaming who will be fine without reaper points but they also the type that giving them reaper points not going to harm the speed in which they learn the game. They be just fine and in no time have plenty of reaper points of there own.

Sharing reaper points is better for newer players and probably the health of game. Now personally I hate what they suggest they need to do in order to implement sharing by making it linear since I prefer choice but that a separate issue.

I can see the point about them needing assistance but i dont think giving points is the route. I'm sure most static groups can do r1 with a little time.

I don't want to be that guy. But you sort of made and affirmed some of my own points in this post. Allow me to clarify my main point.

*Quick note i feel nessessary, you do indeed have a point that static groups will not benefit from changes since they should all of they run reaper have eoughly same points anyway but its their choice to run in a static group how they wish reaper or not.*

Now to the main point!

"The reason most games start out easy then get harder"

This is ddo in general as well. If they cant handle reaper in a static group. They can scale it back and do elite. Though i have noticed that many of these static group more casual players seem hesitant due to issues they've had wither trying to solo or yeet through reaper content like its elite and end up being unprepared for the changes the difficulty provides. But many of these people ive at least talked to. I've mentioned "hey just do r1." They always seem hesitant because indeed they may not be ready yet. And thats fine. Why all this exposition then you ask?

But thats about the end of it for static groups in particular the rest of this is about most players hitting lfms or just general gameplay.

As someone else mentioned 21 points is fairly easy and *MOST* importantly fairly "quick" to get to. Thats why lower reaper points are so cheap xp wise its to already let us see the progress quicker to motivate people into the content that is reaper. Its a relatively quick carrot and stick analogy.

R1 for *MOST* content isn't terribly hard. This sort of proves my point that experience as a player is what matters. And you also said you get it by doing reaper. Which is my shared point of view too. Its okay to die in content. If you're not dying, your not challenging yourself enough. It doesnt help theres a negative effect to dying (-10% xp) but thats how you learn in the first place. And of course dying is frustrating. But its here to stay. Might as well attempt to learn from it.

Currently it's "fairly" easy to get into reaper and accumulate the quick and most importantly noticeable boosts that those first ap give. What the proposed changes would do essentially is make something thats already by todays standards of gearing, character building information, ap splits, or even just weird builds that can and are capable is change it from ""fairly easy to get into" to "cake walk easy most of the time"