To SSG; The endgame and the mountain we climb

[Lazuli]

I’m going to say that I don’t know anyone without at least one alt.

I know a lot of people who have shelved many of their alts, and those who haven't, I know more who would prefer the game not penalize them so much than people who are content.

But as I have already said several times, SSG is not going to change anything, so you don't have to worry. These requests are not something new, they have been increasing since the introduction of racial TRs. And SSG has never shown any signs of wanting to recognize the problem. Those of you who want the status quo can rest assured.

Although I wonder why it is such a trauma for you that people ask for catch up mechanisms and/or slowing down the amount of grind. After all, according to you there are no significant differences, so what do you care if there are changes that according to you will be minimal, since the differences are minimal?

In any case, I'll stop discussing this. I have fought for this too many times, and I feel it is futile to do so. If SSG doesn't want to look at the future of their business, that's on they, honestly.

 

[Br4d]

I had alts I played on every server as of 2013. I had alts on my main server (Cannith at the time) that I played through 2017.

I was giving up on alts based on the time to do Epic past lives but when Racial past lives became a thing it was all over.

 

[rabidfox]

I can't stand running the same quest over and over again. I occasionally run R1/E back to back.

The quest I run a lot of is Lords of Dust, about once daily just because it is quick and easy. I'll run it R1/E and then R1 daily until 20 which is generally about 4-5 days depending on if I am just bouncing on for a few quests or in a 4 hour grind session.

That sound painful. I don't even get past base 16s (and I don't repeat quests) before I hard cap heroics. I can't imagine doing LoD over and over just to get to 20.

 

[Br4d]

That sound painful. I don't even get past base 16s (and I don't repeat quests) before I hard cap heroics. I can't imagine doing LoD over and over just to get to 20.

I log on when I get home in the evening and I run a few quests a night. The first quest, to see if I am up for a few more or just logging off again, is often LoD R1 just to get the 30-40k XP and see how I'm doing.

The rest of the evening is likely to be more painful than LoD, which is an 8 minute romp including the optional. It's an easy test for me as to whether I want to grind a bit or just go find something else to do.

I used to think that DDO was the perfect solo game. 40-odd lives later the repetition of quests is just pretty gruesome at times.

 

[Guntango]

Although I wonder why it is such a trauma for you that people ask for catch up mechanisms and/or slowing down the amount of grind. After all, according to you there are no significant differences, so what do you care if there are changes that according to you will be minimal, since the differences are minimal?

I upvoted the best catch up mechanism known to man. Your dramatic overtures about everyone you know not having time for an alt just seem manufactured to support a point that could be made in more convincing ways.

 

[Lazuli]

I upvoted the best catch up mechanism known to man. Your dramatic overtures about everyone you know not having time for an alt just seem manufactured to support a point that could be made in more convincing ways.

No, let's see, you are the one who is continually arguing about what we say and defending that everything is perfect with the alts.

"My dramatic overtures" are nothing more than boredom with this topic. I've been fighting for this for three or four years. I'm already tired. If SSG wants to let its business not grow, that's up to them. I've realized that there's no point in being upset about a game. Until 2 years ago I was very emotionally involved with this game. Now... pse. Let them do whatever they want.

I have proposed many possible changes and improvements, I have supported some that other people have made, very good ideas. But I have no hope that SSG will react. Although I was surprised by the survey about whether We would recommend the game, honestly. It's the first one they've done in the 13 years I've been here.

 

[T.O.]

I can't stand running the same quest over and over again. I occasionally run R1/E back to back.

The quest I run a lot of is Lords of Dust, about once daily just because it is quick and easy. I'll run it R1/E and then R1 daily until 20 which is generally about 4-5 days depending on if I am just bouncing on for a few quests or in a 4 hour grind session.

I usually run out Cogs after taking completed saga's then take that saga to cap. Then maybe lod once depending if I am behind. That ain't no 4-5 day run.
Not going to lie here. I typically ignore or have a good laugh at leveling guides that suggest running a quest in heroics multiple times.

 

[Br4d]

I usually run out Cogs after taking completed saga's then take that saga to cap. Then maybe lod once depending if I am behind. That ain't no 4-5 day run.
Not going to lie here. I typically ignore or have a good laugh at leveling guides that suggest running a quest in heroics multiple times.

I like the Sharn XP, particularly with the sagas but that's what gets me to 16. I run Ravenloft at 10, Demon Sands at 12, Gianthold at 13 and Sharn at 14 and that gets me to 16. Then I'll run ES/Wheloon to 18 and ES/Wheloon is slow but steady.

I probably should run the Sharn docks quests instead of ES/Wheloon but I don't really like them very much and I've already farmed out all the loot I need from them. I have sworn off of the Vale of Twilight series completely because it is so hinky and it's possible to have to repeat one of more of the long quests if an escort fails or if I accidentally kill too many spiders. Doesn't happen much but when it does it's a waste of my time and I hate those.

It's just so ridiculous that it takes 1.7M XP to go from 15 to 20 on a 3rd lifer. That's completely out of whack with the original quest XP progression in the range which is sparse.

I love the Shavarath quests but they are low XP so I only do them every 3rd life or so.

 

[Speed]

Not to mention that being forced to be a gnome enjoyer three times to get +1 racial point is torture.

I love the Shavarath quests but they are low XP so I only do them every 3rd life or so.

I would not force myself to play the game this way.
I choose content that I prefer to play for fun (exception is playing in groups, in that case I am up for anything that I did not run on current character yet), otherwise I would stop playing and go enjoy other titles.
I am also not a fan of repetition, but I ended up doing the same quests dozens times thanks to social part that bring some variety and life.
In case of single player game, I would finish after one or few classes (but still remember it as a good one).

 

[Br4d]

I would not force myself to play the game this way.
I choose content that I prefer to play for fun (exception is playing in groups, in that case I am up for anything that I did not run on current character yet), otherwise I would stop playing and go enjoy other titles.
I am also not a fan of repetition, but I ended up doing the same quests dozens times thanks to social part that bring some variety and life.
In case of single player game, I would finish after one or few classes (but still remember it as a good one).

The general problem is that I've played most of the quests in the game often enough that I no longer really enjoy playing them. Some quests I still enjoy but the reality is that most quests that I run are just run to level through another heroic or epic life. This is not sustainable forever and the effects that tell me this are that there are nights when I come home and run a quest and just don't have the energy to run another quest that I have run dozens of times over the years.

The newer quests are sometimes entertaining but many of them are just linear AoE fests and I've gotten to the point that I reflexively avoid those after a playthrough or two. The older quests often have much more entertainment value than newer even though I have run them 10x as often.

I know it's bad when I get home and run LoD and then logoff and go just grind mobs in WoW for an hour or two before bed.

 

[T.O.]

I like the Sharn XP, particularly with the sagas but that's what gets me to 16. I run Ravenloft at 10, Demon Sands at 12, Gianthold at 13 and Sharn at 14 and that gets me to 16. Then I'll run ES/Wheloon to 18 and ES/Wheloon is slow but steady.

I probably should run the Sharn docks quests instead of ES/Wheloon but I don't really like them very much and I've already farmed out all the loot I need from them. I have sworn off of the Vale of Twilight series completely because it is so hinky and it's possible to have to repeat one of more of the long quests if an escort fails or if I accidentally kill too many spiders. Doesn't happen much but when it does it's a waste of my time and I hate those.

It's just so ridiculous that it takes 1.7M XP to go from 15 to 20 on a 3rd lifer. That's completely out of whack with the original quest XP progression in the range which is sparse.

I love the Shavarath quests but they are low XP so I only do them every 3rd life or so.

I bank my xp and run quest's 2 levels over. There is so much xp that there is no need to do the big xp chains earlier than needed. I don't even touch E-star till epics. You need to reevaluate your leveling game. I also run 30's. But your leveling game is the disaster you made. Not SSG

 

[DBZ]

Reduce reaper frag crafting to 50 period the only grind that matters

 

[Strommburg]

Reduce reaper frag crafting to 50 period the only grind that mat

Can we make it 25 instead?

 

[Speed]

I know it's bad when I get home and run LoD and then logoff and go just grind mobs in WoW for an hour or two before bed.

Sounds like just doing routine.
Maybe it is a time for longer break and try something different?
Thats what I do when it happens and I come back when I feel enough need to continue.
I am not here to say how you should play, but maybe you could spend your valuable time in more enjoyable way.

 

[Jummby]

I feel sorry for You...wasting hours in worthless content. I actually do kind of miss raiding, I swapped jobs and now the raid parties I was joining form while I'm at work...but the only thing we get out of lvl32 raids are Threads. It's kind of fun watching 1/2 a party try to keep the other 1/2 alive

But we all know from experience... the stuff people are farming in the current raids will be worthless next lvl cap increase. I ran dozens and dozens of FoT's and CitW's ,and now that stuff is junk we may equip for a day or two as we lvl up.

They need more enticement and flexibility like the Von 6 and chrono equipment we can upgrade and use as we TR.

I

Sounds like just doing routine.
Maybe it is a time for longer break and try something different?
Thats what I do when it happens and I come back when I feel enough need to continue.
I am not here to say how you should play, but maybe you could spend your valuable time in more enjoyable way.

The point of the original post is to look at the fact that there is an endgame and people like to play. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't have organized guild.raids.

So to be in these raids and to be effective people try to build toons to be effective in them. Than they feel like they hit the wall with the grind.

People will always have thier main that they keep trying to get stronger grinding out the lives. Some of those people though, want to put some lives on a toon to make it effective and park it at cap.

Those people still get hit in the face with the SSG grind mentality of the game. Want 12 lives for your new alt?: Give us $500 dollars.

How much does 500 bucks at tons of other games? Palworld, BG3, Valheim, Lost Arc, etc...

The list of other games is long, and people are exploring alternatives.

Why is the population collapsing? Whether you want to play the end or grind lives, the FTP model of how much more money can we squeeze out of people permeates itself.

As.much as people try to derail the original topic, I ask again:

SSG, where is the fun?

 

[T.O.]

Those people still get hit in the face with the SSG grind mentality of the game. Want 12 lives for your new alt?: Give us $500 dollars.

How much does 500 bucks at tons of other games? Palworld, BG3, Valheim, Lost Arc, etc...

You mean about 3-4 months of leveling a alt up to 12 lives or 500 bucks. I think the math is easy here. Give them some money on xp pots. And save 400 bucks. Is 12 lives the new arbitrary number for a viable alt now? Is it 12 epic pasts, heroic or racial?

 

[Jummby]

17-20, really?

I usually run that missing quest in harbour 5 times, it takes 5 min and has lots of exp for lvl 17.

Then I boot over to wheloon and do those quests because they have lots of exp.

Gets me to lvl 19 where I run around shav wilderness and do the lvl 17 base madness quests.

But yeah, lvl 22-25 does suck and I'm not a fan of catacombs or epic catacombs.

You mean about 3-4 months of leveling a alt up to 12 lives or 500 bucks. I think the math is easy here. Give them some money on xp pots. And save 400 bucks. Is 12 lives the new arbitrary number for a viable alt now? Is it 12 epic pasts, heroic or racial?

OK, so just spend 100 or more on pots and cut the grind down a bit? To what? 2 or 3 months?

Are we having fun yet?

 

[T.O.]

OK, so just spend 100 or more on pots and cut the grind down a bit? To what? 2 or 3 months?

Are we having fun yet?

yeah I run different builds with my peeps. We have fun doing it. Drink some beverages and laugh when we die. Sounds great. Much more fun than your seriousness level you are taking it too. There is no DDO esport with a ton of money to win. It's just a game to play with your friends. If you want to compete against imaginary teams for monopoly money. go for it. Other than a congratulations on beating content on the toughest level. Nobody will care in a few days. Maybe nobody will care now.

 

[JaynChar2019]

So recently we had this nerf for xp, the alert system change, a purple alert system, etc...

To what end? What was the point? First it was: we need it to fix lag, than as the community rebelled it was stated simply: People level too fast.

Does anyone consider the endgame aspect at SSG. Alot of us, especially established guilds, have organized raids several times a week. People like to build toons for these raids to make them stronger by adding past lives to them. The goal is usually just to be more effective for the group in many cases. To be clear, of course people start with rose colored glasses just saying: I will get all the lives, till they see how steep that mountain really is.

Mountain was a steep climb before, now, it is steeper. Newer players, returning and players that can not devote the time go get 100 plus lives feel left out to me. I see it myself as people aren't necessarily trying to get every life, but get enough lives where they need it for thier build to be more effective.

Now me, personally I am fine. I am playing the game forever and have several raid toons and they have plenty of past lives under thier belt. What about other people who are either returning to the game or trying out ddo?

What about established players who want to make more alts? I have 4 alts and I will never make another one. The grind has been made so bad, that there is no fun it.

Where's the fun in that at this point?

I understand the free to play very clearly (pay for power, conveniences, perks, etc...). DDO is reaching a point though that to be effective, you need to:

A. Pay up and drop a few 1000s on Ottos Boxes.

B. Play DDO full time (putting in free overtime)

C. Look in the blackmarkets on other forums to but illegal boxes and risk getting caught.

Maybe it's time.to reevaluate the grind. Not saying I have an answer, just saying it's time for a reevaluation.

The bottom line: We have server migrations to find more people to play with, people who only play hard core with the game the way it is and amoung other things, a choke hold on the endgame aspect of DDO and overall less people playing the game.

As a fellow guild raider and LFMer I am right there with you brother.

 

[Jummby]

yeah I run different builds with my peeps. We have fun doing it. Drink some beverages and laugh when we die. Sounds great. Much more fun than your seriousness level you are taking it too. There is no DDO esport with a ton of money to win. It's just a game to play with your friends. If you want to compete against imaginary teams for monopoly money. go for it. Other than a congratulations on beating content on the toughest level. Nobody will care in a few days. Maybe nobody will care now.

Have another drink, than re read the original post more carefully tomorrow morning....