U60 Preview 3: Machrotechnic

[Smokewolf]

Well that's just it, the Mech-ED doesn't have anything symmetry-wise for casters, tanks or ranged players either. The ED is more of a generic tree with (a little) something for everyone, but nothing you'd really want to use AP's to Tier-5. Which IMO, is a huge missed opportunity to focus in on how Artificers play: Melee, Caster, and Ranged. Sure the Runearm changes are nice for sure, but I'd of rather seen Runearms open up to all Arcane players willing to spend a heroic feat. Rather than applying it from the ED tier 2 in Epics.

-Smoke

 

[Elves United]

i'm a melee fan too and I've been trying to figure out how or if this tree is viable for melee, the high levels of fort are intesting as it's typically critical hits that will one shot me. I spent a few theory builds with arti, an Asamir Scourge single weapon fighting with a morningstar was as close as I got, but when I was done I thought, no this build would last a week at best...Machrotechnic is a whole lot of middle ground. Upgrading the epic moment with attack and movement speed was interesting, but too little when compared with other destines.

I think, it may be possible to get a swashbuckling bard, using Fatesinger as primary destiny and largely picking up def and the AOE sonic from Machrotechnic may be viable...but, mostly this feels like a defensive nuker tree designed to give Rune Arms a place, while not disrupting the epic destiny power balance.

Unless you are going all in with runearm damage ( which only spellcasters will really have the feats to do ) then the epic moment just isn't worth it but it won't matter as you'll be stopped by desert that is Tier 4. Three spell casting abilties and one runearm ability that requires significant spellpower to be effective means that weapon users simply won't make it to Tier 5 without an unacceptable level of burn.

For Tier 5, I'd have to go with Arcanotechnician. Wouldn't take the epic mantle as there are far better mantles for an offensive spellcaster. ( the best defense is killing the enemy before they can kill you ) But electric immunity stripping and a runearm that already had a recharge rate bonus like Toven's I could seeing do some damage with this epic moment.

 

[rabidfox]

The Tier 2 "Rune Arm Use" option states that it provides +1 stable charge tier if you already had rune arm use feat. I've tested on a 20 artificer with battle engineer enhancements for +2 stable charge tiers already, but the ED one doesn't give any extra +1 stable charge tier. I expected to have stable at 4th charge level, but its still at only 3 (which I got from Battle Engineer already)

Weird, I'm holding at stable charge 4 just fine.

 

[Socratesbastardson]

I agree with Edrein that the t3 Mantle Improvement is ok, but could use some ''pizzaz''. Second, while I like a lot of what there is here, I was sad that Defender pets got no love. A nice solution would be something like what you do with Pale Hunter and Dark Hunter: piggy back pet improvements on other enhancements. The Mantle improvements might be a nice place to insert help for metalic pets, even if it's just extra PRR and MRR.

 

[Socratesbastardson]

A suggestion for the Technique Drive: Flash Drive. For those who take this enhancement, whenever they use "taunt" or Intimidate, they light up with bright lights - multi-colored like Hypnotism? - so they have more flash.

 

[Hephaestas]

Seeing the destiny fleshed out as it is now and playing with it a bit, I find it generally too expensive to make full use the tree - with many abilities requiring a large swathe of additional points to be spent just for the thing you just bought to be useful (See: Armor of Legends)

I find for dps - it's not offering enough reason to leave a mantle from other caster destinies to pick this one up instead.

For defense, I only see it comparable to say, Unyielding, in niche scenarios where a build may already have quality hit points, or not want to use a shield.

For anything martial this destiny will not be the play for you, and the bonuses are all too low on return and highly guarded in the destiny by higher tiers.


What I'd like to see:

1. Lower costs for abilities or wrap them together into more 2ap packages rather than 1/2/3 ones.
2. An upgrade to the epic strike at T5 that makes it comparable to the Draconic one
3. A bit more reason to take the Maximum Overdrive which sadly, feels more of a name being sandwiched in with abilities to match it, than an ability encapsulating the design goal of the tree

Possible Bugs I encountered:

• Sprockets is not granting 10 PRR with the Construct Exemplar feat? maybe lam lag
• Magical Recoil is not consistently granting Spell Resistance

 

[Zvdegor]

Why I cant delete my own post???

 

[Zvdegor]

Seeing the destiny fleshed out as it is now and playing with it a bit, I find it generally too expensive to make full use the tree - with many abilities requiring a large swathe of additional points to be spent just for the thing you just bought to be useful (See: Armor of Legends)

I find for dps - it's not offering enough reason to leave a mantle from other caster destinies to pick this one up instead.

For defense, I only see it comparable to say, Unyielding, in niche scenarios where a build may already have quality hit points, or not want to use a shield.

For anything martial this destiny will not be the play for you, and the bonuses are all too low on return and highly guarded in the destiny by higher tiers.


What I'd like to see:

1. Lower costs for abilities or wrap them together into more 2ap packages rather than 1/2/3 ones.
2. An upgrade to the epic strike at T5 that makes it comparable to the Draconic one
3. A bit more reason to take the Maximum Overdrive which sadly, feels more of a name being sandwiched in with abilities to match it, than an ability encapsulating the design goal of the tree

Possible Bugs I encountered:

• Sprockets is not granting 10 PRR with the Construct Exemplar feat? maybe lam lag
• Magical Recoil is not consistently granting Spell Resistance

Totally agree with U. Too expensive and its a noob trap.

 

[Habreno]

Having taken my artificer to Lam, I went and did three solos of the same quest (R4 Reach for the Sky) with different feat and ED layouts to see what I thought of the new tree.

It's... pretty poor.

I at least appreciate the intent the tree had. But it does fall quite a bit flat in execution. Perhaps my artificer is not the intended build. Perhaps I don't have the intended playstyle. Perhaps this just isn't the tree for my character. Or perhaps the intent and concept is flawed.

Artificers have had some defensive mind to them the entire time. This is very clear and honestly, does make them quite different from a lot of other caster classes. Renegade Mastermaker is quite the tree - and this new ED seems like it wants to supplement that. Unfortunately, AC is not very meaningful for most characters, and even an RM doesn't change that much at all. I will be doing a whole-scale build redo to switch into RM on Lam just to fully test, but with the build I have (ranged repeater/runearm) Machrotechnic just doesn't *do* enough.

The build I have benefits quite heavily from Shiradi. Currently it's Shiradi/Shadowdancer with a splash in LD - and I do see that splash changing from LD to Machrotechnic... for one specific reason that's frankly a bit OP. No-fail reflex on a 1 as a 1st tier - this is an ability we have not had at all, and an ability that legitimately powerful, quite probably too powerful.

As to going further, I tested a Shiradi/Machro split (with my T5's in Shiradi, leaving that tree untouched) and it felt... meh. Getting the 3 imbue dice was nifty, getting the speed drive was okay, but there's not much low in the tree that's worth grabbing over spending more points in a different tree higher up. And I don't see that changing if I had more points to spend - this just isn't a great tree to splash into, it needs to basically be main or naught.

I then tested a Machro/Shadowdancer split, leaving out Shiradi entirely. And here I will give credit, I certainly felt the defenses and the HP. But having lost a ton of utility in Shiradi it was much more of a struggle. Perhaps that speaks to the power level of Shiradi more than the power level of Machro, but I still had a ton of things working for me. I was using my runearm a ton more (normally, it's less of a thing as the one I have, dino runearm, doesn't lend well to very ranged) and I was noticing that damage coming quite well (especially with the extra levels). Unfortunately, that damage is not a significant portion of the DPS, and it also forces you into the fray more than this character likes.

In short: Not the tree I was hoping for, but I want to do a whole LR and such and get a decent taste of it as an RM to fully decide.

 

[Zvdegor]

Having taken my artificer to Lam, I went and did three solos of the same quest (R4 Reach for the Sky) with different feat and ED layouts to see what I thought of the new tree.

It's... pretty poor.

I at least appreciate the intent the tree had. But it does fall quite a bit flat in execution. Perhaps my artificer is not the intended build. Perhaps I don't have the intended playstyle. Perhaps this just isn't the tree for my character. Or perhaps the intent and concept is flawed.

Artificers have had some defensive mind to them the entire time. This is very clear and honestly, does make them quite different from a lot of other caster classes. Renegade Mastermaker is quite the tree - and this new ED seems like it wants to supplement that. Unfortunately, AC is not very meaningful for most characters, and even an RM doesn't change that much at all. I will be doing a whole-scale build redo to switch into RM on Lam just to fully test, but with the build I have (ranged repeater/runearm) Machrotechnic just doesn't *do* enough.

The build I have benefits quite heavily from Shiradi. Currently it's Shiradi/Shadowdancer with a splash in LD - and I do see that splash changing from LD to Machrotechnic... for one specific reason that's frankly a bit OP. No-fail reflex on a 1 as a 1st tier - this is an ability we have not had at all, and an ability that legitimately powerful, quite probably too powerful.

As to going further, I tested a Shiradi/Machro split (with my T5's in Shiradi, leaving that tree untouched) and it felt... meh. Getting the 3 imbue dice was nifty, getting the speed drive was okay, but there's not much low in the tree that's worth grabbing over spending more points in a different tree higher up. And I don't see that changing if I had more points to spend - this just isn't a great tree to splash into, it needs to basically be main or naught.

I then tested a Machro/Shadowdancer split, leaving out Shiradi entirely. And here I will give credit, I certainly felt the defenses and the HP. But having lost a ton of utility in Shiradi it was much more of a struggle. Perhaps that speaks to the power level of Shiradi more than the power level of Machro, but I still had a ton of things working for me. I was using my runearm a ton more (normally, it's less of a thing as the one I have, dino runearm, doesn't lend well to very ranged) and I was noticing that damage coming quite well (especially with the extra levels). Unfortunately, that damage is not a significant portion of the DPS, and it also forces you into the fray more than this character likes.

In short: Not the tree I was hoping for, but I want to do a whole LR and such and get a decent taste of it as an RM to fully decide.

My build is in T5 RMM and cant use the tree even as a 3rd tree.

 

[albertjr]

would it be posible to get imunity to knock downs with rune-arm equip as 3rd point spent in solid footing?

 

[Eme]

would it be posible to get imunity to knock downs with rune-arm equip as 3rd point spent in solid footing?

IMO that's an in a mantle level thing

 

[Ungermax]

IMO that's an in a mantle level thing

Makes sense, although I hope they dont fall into the trap of everything needs both the mantle and a rune arm. HP bonus attached to Rune Arm equipped is not a good idea... Immunity to knockdown could work for it. But yes the mantle needs something better.

I do think we are almost wanting to cram too much into the tree though. I remember hearing talk of it not being a ranged damage tree, yet we have stuff in there that is half trying for weapon users. I think it is trying to do too many things at once, in my opinion the doublestrike and improved crit multi just feel like filler material to make it have some vague appeal to weapon users, and same goes for the epic moment. There are plenty of trees out there that benefit weapon users, this tree IMO should be focusing on the other aspects ie electric/robot/evoc casters, rune arm use, and some extra defenses. If we want to keep it open to weapon users, then we have a long way to go, and will almost certainly condemn this to never being someones main tree ever.

Just feels like a few weapon based stuff has been stapled onto it to fill in some gaps and give it some vague appeal to weapon users. And I am an inquisitor at heart so I am allowed to say this

Forcefield Generator needs something extra. Like there should be an upgrade to it that has a chance to cast Radiant Forcefield on you if youre hit or something that actually resembles a forcefield.

At the very least, I think we should remove the Doublestrike/Doubleshot from this tree and instead include something that says "Hello this is a Macrotechnic." Like a Rune Arm shot based attack that does not interact with the actual Rune Arm charge/cooldown.

Also give it a Tactical Detonation SLA at t4 or something.

Its not a terrible tree, I think its almost there, just a bit rough around the edges - it just needs a little extra spice.

 

[Hephaestas]

Just had a thought that would be an increased incentive for going T5, and encourage firing the rune arm.

If the T5 Forcefield Generator improvement remains tied to equipping a rune arm and encouraging firing it - could the ability for rune arm shots to grant a debuff, such as "Vulnerability" be added to this? As it stands, there isn't a single rune arm that applies a debuff to my knowledge, and this tree could allow some parity between a rune arm user who does not wish to use say, a Green Steel weapon, and there is already a minor precedence in Arcanotechnician for Artificer to have the ability to apply vulnerability (even if it is a very low chance at 5% 1d3 stacks at 3AP)

Additionally, for the epic moment, I think giving the effects of a Radiant Forcefield might add to the utility and overall "pizazz" of the moment. This way also, it stays more in line with the tree concepts, has increased usage for all player types, and adds to that epic feel.

My main issues are there seems to be two very different parts of the tree - and neither really work in tandem with each other. The mantle is all defense and only has one ability that encourages you to fire the rune arm (the other 50% of the tree) to gain defense. I'd like to see a reason for that defense investment to give you some form of offensive benefit as well; otherwise you're turning yourself into a sack of hitpoints that's drastically tanked their offense... Without really still being able to handle that.

A little more synergy between the mantle/defense of the destiny and the rune arm aspects of the tree is all I ask.

 

[Edrein]

Forcefield Generator needs something extra. Like there should be an upgrade to it that has a chance to cast Radiant Forcefield on you if youre hit or something that actually resembles a forcefield.

Additionally, for the epic moment, I think giving the effects of a Radiant Forcefield might add to the utility and overall "pizazz" of the moment. This way also, it stays more in line with the tree concepts, has increased usage for all player types, and adds to that epic feel.

I don't want to be a debbie downer, because there's good feedback in both of your posts, but I feel like at this point three previews in we should all accept they aren't going to just give us a 25% damage reduction for any reason. It's too powerful.

 

[Hephaestas]

I don't want to be a debbie downer, because there's good feedback in both of your posts, but I feel like at this point three previews in we should all accept they aren't going to just give us a 25% damage reduction for any reason. It's too powerful.

That's why I gave reasons

 

[droid327]

Stable charge 5 should be its own T4 enhancement so any caster taking the tree to add RAs can have full mobility, and also to make the Moment make sense. The "dps for mobility" trade-off is rooted in some very outdated design philosophies.

 

[Zvdegor]

The problem with the tree is the defense part works well. You can pump up our AC and HP but there is no synergy to other trees at all or even with itself. You lose so much damage if you swap any of your trees (main, 2nd or 3rd) that it makes it total irrelevant for any builds.
This tree DO NOT OPENS MORE POSSIBILITIES FOR MORE BUILDS but makes any build WEAKER!!!!

As I pointed out in one of my previous comments the Devs put tons of workig hours into this non functional ED Tree for nothing.
No build will ever use that T5.
It does not worth it to use Machrotechik as a 3rd tree caue Divine Crusader offers more for the same ammount of ED points.
Only possibility left as a secondary tree but spending 20-29 points to get a non funtional Runarm use is too expensive. (and not just the ED points but 4 Feats have to be taken to make this tree work which is a nonsense. There isnt any other tree like that)

There were many excellent suggestions from players among the comments after preview 1 and 2 but the Devs stick to their concept and they only do a minimalistic change to calm everyone down.

This tree needs a total redisign but it is too late now.

 

[Edrein]

A new T5 working similar to the Weird option in Shadowdancer could be useful. I would make it a multiselector; one for martial types and one for casters so that no one gets left out.

Martial Option: Cannith Combat Injector. Same as the Cannith Combat Infusion currently; with the addition of +5% doubleshot unlike the current effect. Lasts 120 seconds similar to trances.

Caster Option: Electric Turret. Reskin of the Flame Turret spell with boosted stats to reflect being a level 30 ability. Reinforces the tree's defensive but not-necessarily-a-tank theme.

 

[Ungermax]

I don't want to be a debbie downer, because there's good feedback in both of your posts, but I feel like at this point three previews in we should all accept they aren't going to just give us a 25% damage reduction for any reason. It's too powerful.

They wont give it to us permanently no. But maybe making it so in the mantle, if hit you have a 10% chance to throw up a 12 second radiant shield, cooldown of 1 min, that wouldnt be bad. Stick it in the t4 desert.

We all know the tree is missing something that is clear, its just not obvious what. Get rid of the floppy weapon synergy effects and fill that space with stuff that actually feels like the new ED.

Maybe a Multiselector that offers Tactical Detonation/Radiant Forcefield SLAs or something.

If we insist on keeping some weapon synergy then Maximum Overdrive could offer something a bit more flavorful, like your attacks and offensive spells have a chance to deal extra lightning/sonic damage and instead of the haste boost aspect.