Update 66 Preview 1: Dragon Lord Fighter Archetype

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Cetus

Well-known member
Not here to tell ya how to run your build, but have you tried Eidolon there? I picked one up for the Illithid quests and it's super nice even with just Cha/Ins Cha diamonds slotted in the weapon lol. Feels really stupid losing like 70 of your to-combat stat, but it works really well so...
Yea, it's interesting when other damage-type weapons exist, except a Greataxe of this nature was never created. Re-speccing out of greataxes into greatswords would be a huge pain for just a few quests.

It's a good thought though, maybe I'll play with it when the thought of respeccing isn't so bad lol
 
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Shambhala

Well-known member
Fighter Archetype: Dragon Lord

Overview:

Based on the Dragon Lord prestige class from 3.5e's Dragon Magic book, the Dragon Lord is a Fighter archetype that models their tactics after the ferocity of dragons to demoralize and subdue their enemies. They excel in crowd control, defense, and Draconic power.

Class Trees:
  • NEW: Dragon Lord
  • Stalwart Defender
  • NEW: Ravager
    • This is a modified version of Barbarian's Ravager tree, which does not give or rely on Rage. You cannot spend points in both this tree and Barbarian's version of Ravager at the same time.
Class Features Dropped vs. Base Fighter:
  • Kensei, Vanguard trees.
  • Dragon Lords do not innately get Shield Proficiency.
    • That said, you have Bonus Feats and could take Shield proficiency.
  • Instead of a Fighter Bonus Feats at class level 1, 8, and 16, you take a Draconic Aura feat.
Class Features Gained vs. Base Fighter:
  • Will Save Progression changes from "Poor" to "Good"
New Feats: Draconic Aura
  • At levels 1, 8, and 16, Dragon Lords select a Draconic Aura Feat (instead of a Fighter Bonus Feat). You select one Basic Aura at level 1, one Secondary Aura at level 8, and one Tertiary Aura at level 16. These auras run constantly and simultaneously. You can swap them out with Fred.
  • It is intended that these Morale Bonuses do not stack with everything, especially low level spells - Upgrades in the Dragon Lord tree eventually help these exceed the bonuses of those spells. We do not intend to change this to a unique typing.
  • Feats Available at DL 1: Basic Aura.
    • Nevalarich's Hunger: You and allies close to you get a +2 Morale Bonus to Attack Rolls
    • Aussircaex's Defiance: You and allies close to you get a +2 Morale Bonus to Saving Throws
    • Thraxata's Instinct: You and allies close to you get a +2 Morale Bonus to Tactical Feat DCs
  • Feats Available at DL 8: Secondary Aura.
    • Velah's Fury: You and allies close to you get a +3 Morale Bonus to Damage Rolls
    • Sinvala's Toughness: You and allies close to you get a +3 Morale Bonus to PRR
    • Eternity's Ward: You and allies close to you get a +3 Morale Bonus to MRR
  • Feats Available at DL 16: Tertiary Aura.
    • The Truthful One's Might: You and allies close to you get a +4 Morale Bonus to Melee Power
    • Aurgloroasa's Ascended Wrath: You and allies close to you get a +4 Morale Bonus to Ranged Power
    • Kor Kaza's Forbidden Power: You and allies close to you get a +4 Morale Bonus to Universal Spell Power
Unless specifically listed, assume the class is otherwise identical to Fighter.


Ravager Tree
This tree is identical to the Barbarian Ravager tree, with the following exceptions:
  • All abilities that scale with Barbarian Level instead scale with Dragon Lord level.
  • Core 1: Furious Rage: Does not require you to be Raging.
  • Core 5: Subsiding Fury: Instead of triggering on Barbarian Rage, this triggers on using Second Wind.
  • Core 6: Visage of Terror: Instead of requiring 1 Rage to activate, this does not use charges but has a longer cooldown (36sec. vs. 30).
  • Tier 1: Barbarian Power Attack is renamed to not say barbarian.
  • Tier 1: Hardy Rage is replaced with Extra Action Boost (+1/2/3).


Dragon Lord Tree
  • Cores
    • Core 1: Soul of the Dragon: Multiselector:
      • Pick a Draconic Soul to commune with, which will influence the rest of your power in this tree. Passive: You gain +1 to Tactical Feat DCs.
        • Red (Fire)
        • White (Cold)
        • Blue (Electric)
        • Black (Acid)
        • Green (Poison)
    • Core 2: Draconic Arms:
      • You gain an Imbue Toggle that adds 1d6 damage of the type you selected for your Draconic Soul to your Melee and Ranged Attacks. This damage scales with 200% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power.
      • Passive: The bonus of all of your Draconic Auras increases by 1.
    • Core 3: Reckless Devotion:
      • Target Ally gains a Morale Bonus to Critical Confirmation and Critical Hit Damage equal to 1 + a quarter of your Dragon Lord level for 20 seconds. 40 second cooldown.
      • Passive: +5 Melee and Ranged Power, +1 Imbue Die, +3 to Critical Hit Confirmation and Damage.
    • Core 4: Conqueror's Command:
      • When you use Reckless Devotion, the power of your Draconic command grants that ally the effects of the Panacea spell, curing many afflictions and healing that ally for 1d6+2 Hit Points plus 1 per Dragon Lord level. This healing scales with 200% of Melee Power.
      • Passive: +1 Imbue Die, and the bonus of all of your Draconic Auras increases by 1.
    • Core 5: Dragon's Defense
      • While you have any Draconic Aura active, you and nearby allies gain a +3 Morale Bonus to Resistance and +5% Morale Bonus to Absorption of the element you selected for your Draconic Soul.
      • Passive: +10 Melee and Ranged Power, +2 Imbue Dice.
    • Core 6: Sunder Soul: Target Sundered enemy must make a Will saving throw (DC 10 + Highest of STR and CHA mod + Sunder bonuses) or have their Soul sundered, killing them instantly. If an enemy is killed by this, nearby enemies have a chance to be Cowered for 6 seconds with no save.
      • Passive: +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, +10 Melee Power, +1 Imbue Die, and the bonus of all of your Draconic Auras increases by 2.
  • Tier 1
    • Dragon's Protection I: You gain +3 Resistance to the element you selected for your Draconic Soul.
    • Battlefield Tactician I: +1 to Tactical Feat DCs.
    • Unbreakable Will: +1/2/3 Will Saving Throws
    • Skills: +1/2/3 to Intimidate, Jump, and Haggle. Rank 3: You gain +2 to Attack
    • Martial Superiority: Multiselector:
      • Deft Strikes: +3/6/10% Offhand Strike Chance (antireq: shintao/sacred fist deft strikes)
      • Improved Second Strikes: +5/10/20% Strikethrough (antireq: kotc improved second strikes)
      • Strike Twice: +2/4/6% Doublestrike
      • Shoot Twice: +2/4/6% Doubleshot
  • Tier 2
    • Dragon's Protection II: You gain +3 Resistance to the element you selected for your Draconic Soul.
    • Battlefield Tactician II: +1 to Tactical Feat DCs.
    • Draconic Resilience: +2/4/6 Natural Armor
    • Action Boost: Multiselector:
      • Action Boost: Tactics: For 20 seconds, gain +3/6/9 Action Boost bonus to Sunder, Trip, and Stun DCs
      • Action Boost: Haste: Activate to gain +10%/+20%/+30% Action Boost bonus to attack speed for 20 seconds.
    • Dragonslayer: You gain Favored Enemy: Dragon
  • Tier 3
    • Dragon's Protection III: You gain +3 Resistance and 5% Absorption to the element you selected for your Draconic Soul.
    • Battlefield Tactician III: +1 to Tactical Feat DCs and Breath Weapon DCs. When you attack with Trip or Sunder (or their Improved variants), you deal 1d4 additional damage per Character Level of the Element you selected for your Draconic Soul. This damage scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power.
    • Dragon's Roar: Tactical Feat: Enemies in a cone ahead of you must make a Will Saving Throw (DC 10 + Highest of STR and CHA mod + Stunning bonuses + Breath Weapon DC Bonuses) or be Dazed for 6 seconds. Affected enemies have a 25% chance to be broken out of the Daze on damage. 20 second cooldown.
      • (Also note: This is a Tactical Feat, but you DON'T make an attack as part of this. No damage. Ranged-user friendly.)
    • Trance: Multiselector:
      • Draconic Outburst: (Req: Non-Lawful Alignment) Battle Trance: You gain an Insight bonus to Attack, Damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Charisma modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. Each time you successfully use Trip, Sunder, Stunning Blow, or Dragon's Roar (or their Improved variants), you have a chance to restore 1 charge.
      • Draconic Might: (Req: Non-Chaotic Alignment) Battle Trance: You gain an Insight bonus to Attack, Damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Strength modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. Each time you successfully use Trip, Sunder, Stunning Blow, or Dragon's Roar (or their Improved variants), you have a chance to restore 1 charge.
    • Ability Score: Multiselector
      • STR
      • CHA
  • Tier 4
    • Dragon's Protection IV: You gain +3 Resistance and 5% Absorption to the element you selected for your Draconic Soul.
    • Battlefield Tactician IV: +1 to Tactical Feat DCs and Breath Weapon DCs. If you successfully Sunder (or Improved Sunder) a target under the effects of Trip (or Improved Trip), that target takes an additional 1d6 damage per Character Level of the Element you selected for your Draconic Soul. This damage scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power.
    • Untouchable Soul: You have Displacement, giving opponents a 25% chance to miss you due to concealment. This cannot be dispelled.
    • Lead the Charge:Melee Rush Attack: Rush forward up to 30 feet to your selected opponent and deliver a +20%/30%/50%[W] strike. 12 second cooldown. Shares cooldown with Shield Charge. Note: This works with any melee weapon, and not just a shield.
      • (This is identical to the KOTC one, though slightly higher up).
    • Ability Score: Multiselector
      • STR
      • CHA
  • Tier 5
    • Soul Scales: You gain +15 Magical Resistance Rating. +25% Competence Bonus to Max HP, and you have a 5% chance to ignore damage of the element you selected for your Draconic Soul.
    • Tactical Commander: The cooldowns of your Trip, Sunder, Stunning Blow, and Dragon's Roar (and their Improved versions) are reduced by 33%.
    • Improved Dragon's Roar: Your Dragon's Roar now Cowers enemies instead of Dazing them.
    • Memory of Flight: (antireq Dragonborn version of the same): Active Ability: Activate: Memories of flight lie within you. You are able to leap through the air to bring the fight to your enemies or traverse chasms that make normal adventure balk. Activation Cost: Nothing Cooldown: 15 Seconds. When you use Memory of Flight (this version or Dragonborn's), you gain a +20% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 6 seconds.
    • Conqueror: +1/2 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier with All Weapons.


Past Life:
You were a Dragon Lord in a past life. Others find you strangely compelling when you speak or take to the battlefield. Each time you acquire this feat you gain +1 Damage with Melee Weapons and +1 Breath Weapon DC. This feat can be stacked up to three times.

KNOWN ISSUE:
"Dragons roar" (dragon lord architype) is broken and should not be used with these types of characters:
-All Dwarves
-All Half-Orcs
-Shifter Males
It sounds like a archtype focused on CC, but still lack of power. Maybe bring some helpless dmg.


I think itself wont be able to solve the problem of lack of diversity in melee classes ( 18/1/1 kensei, warlock, fvs ) . Maybe adding some raw melee power somehow....


Might be for mid tier player and flavor pickers. But will be ignored for top tier players since they work as a party.

but in the other hand, no melee class, splash or build will be strong as a caster (Even more with the chain missiles exploit), so make sense this flavor archtype.
 

Mordenkainen

Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
but in the other hand, no melee class, splash or build will be strong as a caster (Even more with the chain missiles exploit), so make sense this flavor archtype.
I hate casters so much guys... you have no idea. Just so much hate for a particular genre of play that it's starting to bleed into my other games.

I won't even play a caster in Skyrim!
 

Mordenkainen

Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
>I hate casters so much guys... you have no idea.

You uh, know what your named after, right?

Elminster was actually a Rogue/Fighter during his early days but was abused and traumatised by the Goddess of Magic throwing him into a form of stockholm syndrome thereby turning him into a caster.
 

paddymaxson

Well-known member
What I'm reading in this thread (I am not much of a mechanical theorycrafter) is that this is going to be worse than regular fighter DPS-wise. That seems like a bit of a shame. Appreciate it's tricky to balance but I don't think the game needs another archetype that's basically worse than the class it's based on.
 

Shear-buckler

Well-known member
What I'm reading in this thread (I am not much of a mechanical theorycrafter) is that this is going to be worse than regular fighter DPS-wise. That seems like a bit of a shame. Appreciate it's tricky to balance but I don't think the game needs another archetype that's basically worse than the class it's based on.

It is certainly not worse than regular fighter.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
What I'm reading in this thread (I am not much of a mechanical theorycrafter) is that this is going to be worse than regular fighter DPS-wise. That seems like a bit of a shame. Appreciate it's tricky to balance but I don't think the game needs another archetype that's basically worse than the class it's based on.
Yeah how dare it not do more dps than the best dps tree in the game.
 

paddymaxson

Well-known member
Yeah how dare it not do more dps than the best dps tree in the game.
Doesn't have to do more man just be comporable without being homogenous.

I've not played for a while as finishing the racial grind gave me burnout when I finally got to my "forever build" which was pure fighter and this sounded up my alley but I don't really want to play a suboptimal character again. I had enough of that when I tried out some stuff while doing the racial grind.
 

Shear-buckler

Well-known member
Doesn't have to do more man just be comporable without being homogenous.

I've not played for a while as finishing the racial grind gave me burnout when I finally got to my "forever build" which was pure fighter and this sounded up my alley but I don't really want to play a suboptimal character again. I had enough of that when I tried out some stuff while doing the racial grind.

It is comprable. Any loss in DPS is made up for by having far better CC and access to better defenses. If you only value DPS that is fine, but its not a problem with the archetype.
 

Speed

Well-known member
What I'm reading in this thread (I am not much of a mechanical theorycrafter) is that this is going to be worse than regular fighter DPS-wise. That seems like a bit of a shame. Appreciate it's tricky to balance but I don't think the game needs another archetype that's basically worse than the class it's based on.

Did you play to test it in practice?
Do we need another Kensei or something at least slightly different playstyle like focus on tactics/cc if someone use them often with strikethrough?
There are people who like it and ones who do not, just like with any class.
My friend who likes to play fighter, now have fun with this variant that favors her playstyle, so leave it for such players.
 

Speed

Well-known member
Is THF best to squeeze out the most DPS for DL? or is it still TWF?

Not sure if better in total dps, but some find it more fun to cc multiple targets instead of single.
You may fail with your stun on one in case of TWF or success on up to three (or even four?) with THF and then hit them all with extra helpless damage plus potential criticals (not to mention that they can not attack you, so it may also count as extra defense), but your performance against bosses might be less effective (less damage per single target).
 
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Aggy

Active member
just asking for clarification on dragons roar, is it intended not to work while raged? Cause it wasn't working on Lama on the last preview.
 

Mickeymouse

Well-known member
What I'm reading in this thread (I am not much of a mechanical theorycrafter) is that this is going to be worse than regular fighter DPS-wise. That seems like a bit of a shame. Appreciate it's tricky to balance but I don't think the game needs another archetype that's basically worse than the class it's based on.
My reading is completely opposite of yours. This tree got some scary good stuff in it.
 

glass_jaws

Well-known member
The individual damage will be lower than Kensei (as it should be). It will be missing some melee power, and hit/damage compared to Kensei. It will provide more value to a team and may provide more overall damage that way.

In addition it has a strong CC ability which allows it to get helpless damage on it's own. That may make up for the other losses on trash.

It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. The class has a ton of potential, and I am looking forward to trying it.
 
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