Coffey
Well-known member
Thanks for the clarity Ying.
I thought that must be it. I couldnt find anything on cowering as a precursor to helpless damage.
Update 66 Preview 1: Dragon Lord Fighter Archetype
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I thought that must be it. I couldnt find anything on cowering as a precursor to helpless damage.
glass_jaws
Well-known member
Yeah I tested it on Lam. It was definitely making the helpless on the first lam.
Coffey
Well-known member
Glad to hear it works that way on DL.
The only other use of cower i could remember was on consecration in divine crusader:
Cower Before Me: When you use Consecration, nearby enemies must make a Fortitude save or become Cowered for 4 seconds. Cower makes an enemy helpless for the duration. Only sentient creatures, Undead, Aberrations, and Outsiders may be cowered (so constructs, oozes, etc, are immune) DC: 20 + Sunder DC + highest ability score.
I guess it was adopted to DL from DC.
In addition to cower aoe (Greater Roar, +20% damage to helpless for 20 sec), I took Stunning Blow feat for strikethrough that can stun up to 3 targets making them helpless with even higher dc than before.
Kensei has tactical dc 3 + 2 if capstone while Dragon Lord offers 5 without capstone or T5 + 2/3/4/5/7 if tactical aura (sacrificing saves option) + 9 action boost + 1/2 strength modifier trance + 2/3 tactics cooldown.
SteelStar
Senior Systems Designer
While we're on the subject of Dragon Lord making things Helpless, let me drop a little preview of a change coming in the next Lamannia:
Tier 5 Greater Roar has been buffed to the following: "Your Dragon's Roar now Cowers enemies instead of Dazing them. In addition, when you use Dragon's Roar, you gain a +20% Morale bonus to damage vs. Helpless targets for 20 seconds."
Tier 5 Greater Roar has been buffed to the following: "Your Dragon's Roar now Cowers enemies instead of Dazing them. In addition, when you use Dragon's Roar, you gain a +20% Morale bonus to damage vs. Helpless targets for 20 seconds."
Elminster
Well-known member
Cool change and I like it ... a lot.
Still won't overcome the mathmatically better alternative of going primarily Paladin and grabbing Holy Sword for the +1 crit range but...
I gotta tell you. I'm here for the Cosmetic Wings !
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
Well-known member
you are comparing fighter, a non spellcaster, to pally, a spellcaster. i thought you hated casters?Cool change and I like it ... a lot.
Still won't overcome the mathmatically better alternative of going primarily Paladin and grabbing Holy Sword for the +1 crit range but...
I gotta tell you. I'm here for the Cosmetic Wings !
glass_jaws
Well-known member
You might want to rethink your conclusion here. You can get holy sword, and that. Holy Sword is just a base paladin spell so there is nothing locked behind enhancements. 15 Paladin/5 Dragonlord with T5 Dragonlord would get both.Cool change and I like it ... a lot.
Still won't overcome the mathmatically better alternative of going primarily Paladin and grabbing Holy Sword for the +1 crit range but...
I gotta tell you. I'm here for the Cosmetic Wings !
glass_jaws
Well-known member
Nice! Looking forward to seeing this released. I really like the idea of the tactical group oriented fighter. Should be very interesting to play.
Elminster
Well-known member
If you were using a bsword, would you go with +2 multi or +2 threat with a 15/5 dlord combination?
+2 multiplier (Dragon Lord T5) vs +1 range and +1 multiplier (Holy Sword).
Greatsword.
19-20 x2 is 19-20 x4 (2x3 = 6) vs 18-20 x3 (3x2 = 6).
17-20 x2 with Improved Critical is 17-20 x4 (4x3 = 12) vs 16-20 x3 (5x2 = 10).
Falchion.
18-20 x2 is 18-20 x4 (3x3 = 9) vs 17-20 x3 (4x2 = 8).
15-20 x2 with Improved Critical is 15-20 x4 (6x3 = 18) vs 14-20 x3 (7x2 = 14).
Improved Critical favors multiplier, but there are also other factors that come in depending on how you created your character and what is your playstyle.
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Falchion doesn't really count here, as you are locked into exactly one race that can have a favored falchion. Ignoring that, we just have the greatsword stuff.
16/15 points seems pretty decent, much better than the existing options for pallys.
Wouldnt these go together though?
19-20 -> 17-20 (+2 threat) -> 16-20 (+1 holysword) ->15?->20 (improved crit) , with x3 multi (6x3) (18)
or 19-20 -> 18-20 (+1 hsword) -> (17?16?) -> improved crit, with x4 multi (4?5? x4) (16, or 20?)
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droid327
Well-known member
Does Cower apply Helpless? Because Dazed does, at least until its broken (and its only 25% chance to break, so that's 4 helpless hits on average
It'd be weird if the upgrade downgraded the CC effect
But yeah, the Helpless damage is wholly fitting and welcome
Threat is always the right answer
Even on a 20/x3 weapon (ie, skewed heaviest towards wanting more range), that's 19-20/x3 with IC = 20%...+2 Range makes it 17-20/x3 = 40%, +2 Mult makes it 19-20/x5 = 40%, so its even
Anything other than 20/x3 favors Mult more
And that's not even considering that many attacks (well mainly Adrenaline) are autocrit, which only benefits having mult
You dont take Ravager T5 for the +2 range, you take it for the auto heal, and the +2 range is just a consolation prize for losing +2 mult
Feeling exceited to test it out.
Awesome update. May i suggest on core t4 or t5 that helpless dmg change sel-self for for party-radius.
works also as a trade off for mutlticlassing.
sort of ".. feral Ravaging dragon party trampling buff"
I corrected calculations in my previous post, because only bonus damage counts (-1 to multiplier to remove base, so 19-20 x2 should be 2x1, not 2x2).
Each point is 5% more average base damage.
20 points is like double (20 x 5% = +100% average base damage).
Bastard Sword (if wanting shield, iconic race)
Same as Greatsword.
+1 range instead of multiplier favors weapons with shortest threat 20 like Dwarven Axe (dwarf) or Maul (iconic race).
20 x3 is 20 x5 (1x4 = 4) vs 19-20 x4 (2x3 = 6).
19-20 x3 with Improved Critical is 19-20 x5 (2x4 = 8) vs 18-20 x4 (3x3 = 9).
Longsword (TWF or shield).
Same as Greatsword if no Knights Training.
17-20 x3 with Improved Critical and Knights Training is 17-20 x5 (4x4 = 16) vs 16-20 x4 (5x3 = 15)
Warhammer (TWF or shield).
Same as Dwarven Axe or Maul if no Knights Training.
Same as Longsword with Improved Critical and Knights Training.
19-20 x2 is 15-20 x2 (6x1 = 6) with Improved Critical, +2 threat.
19-20 x2 is 17-20 x4 (4x3 = 12) with Improved Critical, +2 multiplier.
19-20 x2 is 14-20 x3 (7x2 = 14) with Improved Critical, Holy Sword, +2 threat.
19-20 x2 is 16-20 x5 (5x4 = 20) with Improved Critical, Holy Sword, +2 multiplier.
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Part of that math is going to deplend on whether anyone else in the party is providing the helpless state, even ignoring the additional (larger) threat multiplier from DL.
Ying
5000+ hours played
It does. You can verify that today with Divine Crusader.
Phaaze
Well-known member
Suggestion: in the empty T5 slot in Ravager put "Frightful Presence" as an upgrade to aura of fear that acts like Mummy despair. that acts like an aura that can freeze enemies in place with fear if they fail a will save.
or for balance reasons make it so enemies in Aura of Fear also makes enemies shaken and upgrades Fear me! so that intim has a 33% chance to freeze enemies with fear no save. (does not effect bosses or raid bosses)
Edit: Another idea could be that enemies in Aura of Fear gain a 1d4+1 stacks of Terror every 6 seconds. The same terror in legendary dreadnought.
or for balance reasons make it so enemies in Aura of Fear also makes enemies shaken and upgrades Fear me! so that intim has a 33% chance to freeze enemies with fear no save. (does not effect bosses or raid bosses)
Edit: Another idea could be that enemies in Aura of Fear gain a 1d4+1 stacks of Terror every 6 seconds. The same terror in legendary dreadnought.
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