As said by others in previous threads, friends and new players should not see any low-level quest paywalled. New players should be offered QoL and zero negatives at the start of their adventures. Add new player NPC's with cut scenes explaining how to spend action points and how to level up. Send a welcome e-mail included with their account verification to new players with helpful links and guides on the forums or wiki. The game can be daunting for new players who can struggle even at the early part of the game. Oh and optimize and update the pre-built characters, don't gimp them so they have to start over. There is a lot of information a new player needs to learn and if DDO wants to retain the new players then more help should be given. A few more carrots dangled should also be considered.
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Yeah, that. Don't do that. Not sure if it'd just go in automatically if you're logged into Google in your browser session already, but still don't do that.
I have recommended this game to others. With some reservations though, as in to people with enough patience to learn the complicated rules and also budgeting for the content. Or to people who I'd llike to learn those things... like my kids, years ago. (2 are currently very active, other 2 play occasionally.)
Yeah, that, and also the rules change just a bit too frequently.
That's really not very different from other games.
Haven't even tried the prebuilt character paths in years but yeah, they were kind of not very useful.
Eh. That isn't really the problem so much. It's the actual barriers to payment and such, like methods availability... being an overseas purchase from here and all... don't really mind waiting for a good discount on whatever, but then trying to get the bank to let the payment through while the discount is active is a bit of a hurdle. Be nice if we could use PaysafeCard or some such for all of those.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
^ all this. Here's the ever growing list of things some people need to do just to get into the game to see if they like it... https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...-as-crowdsourced-by-many-players-advice.1666/ and that's just a tiny bit of the ice berg people have to deal with when new.
Ped Xing
Active member
2 word answer.
Br4d
Well-known member
I filled out the survey. I gave DDO a 6 on the would you recommend scale.
This is because I have recommended DDO to seven players over the years and all wound up leaving the game, some after spending significant money on it.
At least two people bought all of the content available at the time (through Shadowfell Conspiracy and including all of the store bought packs.)
The problem was not the cost of play. The problem was the TR system with the incalculable costs associated with it.
Everybody was turned off by the fact that the game itself is secondary to the character building system.
I believe that anybody else I introduce to the system will come to the same conclusion, only much quicker because of how much the character building system has expanded over the years.
This is why I advocate so strongly for a new player/casual server. I think all of my friends might have stuck around for that experience and periodically spent money on the game as expansions released.
This is because I have recommended DDO to seven players over the years and all wound up leaving the game, some after spending significant money on it.
At least two people bought all of the content available at the time (through Shadowfell Conspiracy and including all of the store bought packs.)
The problem was not the cost of play. The problem was the TR system with the incalculable costs associated with it.
Everybody was turned off by the fact that the game itself is secondary to the character building system.
I believe that anybody else I introduce to the system will come to the same conclusion, only much quicker because of how much the character building system has expanded over the years.
This is why I advocate so strongly for a new player/casual server. I think all of my friends might have stuck around for that experience and periodically spent money on the game as expansions released.
I gave it a 1.
I am in my 50s. If I were to recommend DDO to friends it would need to be much easier to get into, to catch up to me, and to play with me - which it isnt.
I dont want anyone to join only to figure out they need to spend several 100 USD to purchase all expansions (anything less and they cant really play with me) and play 1000s of hours to even begin to catch up to my twin 100+ reaper points, heroic/racial/4xepic completionist characters. The FREEDDO code and the 99 point old expansions are great - but still nowhere sufficient as you still need to purchase too many other things to catch up to how I play the game.
All the while suffering from lag noone understands, a painful storage system and with fairly little way to play together if our playtime does not perfectly match atleast one way (get out of sync level/quest wise, and it doesnt work).
I love DDO - but as it is I have no inclidation to offer it to any friends. I do have some friends that already play, which is great.
I am in my 50s. If I were to recommend DDO to friends it would need to be much easier to get into, to catch up to me, and to play with me - which it isnt.
I dont want anyone to join only to figure out they need to spend several 100 USD to purchase all expansions (anything less and they cant really play with me) and play 1000s of hours to even begin to catch up to my twin 100+ reaper points, heroic/racial/4xepic completionist characters. The FREEDDO code and the 99 point old expansions are great - but still nowhere sufficient as you still need to purchase too many other things to catch up to how I play the game.
All the while suffering from lag noone understands, a painful storage system and with fairly little way to play together if our playtime does not perfectly match atleast one way (get out of sync level/quest wise, and it doesnt work).
I love DDO - but as it is I have no inclidation to offer it to any friends. I do have some friends that already play, which is great.
Crying?
SSG is asking why we wouldn't recommend the game to new players. The feedback has been entirely on topic and appropriate responses to the OP.
Opinions that differ from yours aren't crying by default. It's poor form trying to demean them without good reason. If anything, leading with an ad hominem out of the gate weakens your point.
To add further to this, I have recommended this game to multiple friends and acquaintances at work over the years. Exactly NONE of them have stuck with it beyond the second month. My responses as to why I wouldn't/don't recommend DDO are based on feedback from those people.
Obviously, I enjoy DDO enough to have kept playing it for 10+ years. The catch is, these days it's more accurate for me to say I enjoy DDO in spite of it's flaws and some of the questionable, anti-player design decisions that they've made in recent years.
Unwilling to do anything about it ourselves? This doesn't make any sense in the context of the OP and the responses given.
How do you propose the players personally fix the consistent lag and poor server performance?
I have no access to SSG's code repository so I have no idea how you'd expect any of the players to fix the long list of irritating bugs that have been around for years.
We also have no authority to set pricing on content so we can't make it so that it doesn't cost a new player hundreds of dollars to get the full game. Nor do we have the ability to make content older than 3-4 years permanently free. Ditto for making the VIP subs a good value by including all but the most recent 1-2 packs.
Not sure how you'd expect *me* to hire customer service personnel, train them properly and create some CS utilities so the in-game support could actually help players in-game. SSG's HR department might have some objections to me hiring people for them.
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DDO Gaming
Well-known member
I would ONLY recommend the game to someone AFTER setting up the game on their system AND creating an account WITH a complete team of playable characters. Otherwise for someone unfamiliar with DDO getting to the point they have playable characters is a complete nightmare
Blerkington
Well-known member
Good to see you are finally taking the community's suggestions about surveys. Requiring us to sign in via Google isn't great though, so instead I will be providing my answer here.
I would not recommend DDO to a friend. If they happened to ask me about it I would mention that sometimes around the end of the year there is a free content code that lets you try some of the game so to do it then. Under those circumstances I'd give them whatever amount of help they wanted to try out the game in the form of advice on character building, running stuff with them, gearing up, etc.
But I feel like the game has too many problems to recommend it. One of the most serious issues is the amount of money new players are expected to spend for all the expansion content. Once upon a time VIP was a really good way to get people into the game but that is no longer the case. You really need to do something to make it cheaper for new customers to try out the whole game; in my view this is one of the worst obstacles to recruitment.
I would not recommend DDO to a friend. If they happened to ask me about it I would mention that sometimes around the end of the year there is a free content code that lets you try some of the game so to do it then. Under those circumstances I'd give them whatever amount of help they wanted to try out the game in the form of advice on character building, running stuff with them, gearing up, etc.
But I feel like the game has too many problems to recommend it. One of the most serious issues is the amount of money new players are expected to spend for all the expansion content. Once upon a time VIP was a really good way to get people into the game but that is no longer the case. You really need to do something to make it cheaper for new customers to try out the whole game; in my view this is one of the worst obstacles to recruitment.
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droid327
Well-known member
Because the results would've been public then...
So this is interesting. The same survey is being given for all Daybreak Games Company Games, well at least for Darkpaw Games (EQ, EQ2, DCUO) and Standing Stone Games (DDO and LOTRO).
in4theride75
Member
This. This is the only major criticism in this entire thread I agree with.
First and foremost the game is awesome at it's core. Unlike a lot of people I am super glad you are not longer sticking 100% to PnP rules like you did in the early years. PnP is a great system for table top but it has some serious shortcomings in video games.
I disagree with the concept of "catch up mechanics" like a lot of other MMOs have. It's a terrible way to onboard new players because it forces them into content that should really be learned over the course of leveling. Plus DDO really doesn't have anything that needs to be "caught up" to. DDO is a loot based game where 90% of your power can be achieved without ever TRing, raiding, or running reaper, and in less than 30 days. TBH there really is no "end game" content to speak of.
There are really only 3 things this game needs for new players to stay.
1) Fix the lag.
Nothing else will have as big of an impact on player retention than the lag. Yes, I understand that will require recoding how the database is structured from the ground up to resolve, but this is not a negotiable component to retaining new players. This is the number one complaint I hear from all players, new or old. And has even caused me, a player since pre-f2p, to quit for 6 years.
2) New players have to find parties.
MMOs are not nearly as fun solo as they are in groups. It's time to migrate all servers to a single mega server. DDO's reincarnation mechanic is fantastic for keeping gameplay alive but it makes it exceptionally hard to find a group in the correct level range to play with, and also naturally attracts an XP/minute playstyle that is not newbie friendly. This gives new players the unnecessary choice to run elite/reaper content with veterans who are running full speed through the content, bring your own party of friends, or play solo. One of the largest appeals for the hardcore server is this exact solution. Lots of groups, lots of people in your level range, and lots of variance in how players want to run the quests, not just veteran full zerg where xp/min is king.
3) New players struggle with the harder difficulties that veterans run.
Part of this is due to not being able to find non-veteran groups at level and could be resolved with point 2 above, but it would be nice to add a couple new dungeons that explain the champion mechanic and the reaper mechanics with in game tutorials.
There are more issues that I've heard from new players I've onboarded, such as inventory management, but they aren't the core reasons why they stop playing. Fix those 3 issues and I will guarantee you'll retain and attract more new players.
EDIT: What Rabidfox said here is also a good point. I helped other people set up their system directly but I could totally see how this could cull new players before they even got into the game.
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Dunspartacus
Well-known member
I wish I could give higher than a 4 but man DDO is like one of the worst games to have to sell your friends on, and I've tried in the past with none of them staying more than a couple of weeks. The grind is probably the most overwhelming in any MMO I've ever played, the graphics and UI are....dated, the time and potentially money investment is daunting, the population is middling at best, and the whole thing is built on an outdated spaghetti code that is liable to collapse if you try to do something as simple as climb a ladder.
I love DDO from the bottom of my heart, but with all that it's hard to convince people how great this game is without sounding like a masochist whose trying to convert them to be one to.
I love DDO from the bottom of my heart, but with all that it's hard to convince people how great this game is without sounding like a masochist whose trying to convert them to be one to.
DDO Gaming
Well-known member
DDO is a brilliant game. But getting to the point a gamer can appreciate it is a tough tough journey unless they're part of an experienced group that KNOWS HOW TO BREAK NEW PLAYERS INTO THE GAME
GrayJedi AntiProPaladin
Well-known member
BTW it's very easy to create throwaway accounts on google in Private or Incognito Browser mode..takes like less than 2 mins...u don't even have to bother to remember what the new username or password is, since it's throwaway..... just sayin'....
How? When I tried it wanted a phone number, which I'm definitely not going to give.
GrayJedi AntiProPaladin
Well-known member
oh I use Free Google Voice # I use for many free google accounts, then after a few months of non-use of Google voice # they recycle that and u can get a new Google Voice #
Free Google Voice # https://voice.google.com/about
(altho I think about it now, it maybe only works in USA / Canada / Mexico....? I haven't tried it when I'm travelling to other countries...)
Free Google Voice # https://voice.google.com/about
(altho I think about it now, it maybe only works in USA / Canada / Mexico....? I haven't tried it when I'm travelling to other countries...)
Yeah, but if you didn't open Cordovan's link in a private browser window (or better yet in a sandbox instance) and you were already signed into a Google account, it doesn't pop up a notice that it's using your Google account or anything.
Somewhat poor form to at least not put a disclaimer with said link to warn their customers that it'll automatically use their Google account.
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