We have a one-question survey for you!

[Oliphant]

Almost everyone is answering this question based on the faulty logic that if they love or hate the game, a theoretical new player will similarly love or hate it for the same reasons.

Obviously, no. People are taking the survey or on the forums mostly because they play DDO and like the game. The question is whether you would recommend this to NEW players and most of us at this point are probably saying no, I won't do this to people anymore.

 

[JaynChar2019]

Obviously, no. People are taking the survey or on the forums mostly because they play DDO and like the game. The question is whether you would recommend this to NEW players and most of us at this point are probably saying no, I won't do this to people anymore.

I love the game but hate the management of it, mice drop.......

 

[GrayJedi AntiProPaladin]

poor mice....why u dropping 'em?

or "mice droppings"...?

 

[JaynChar2019]

damn auto correct or could have actually been me, lolz.

 

[GrayJedi AntiProPaladin]

friggin' auto"correct".... LOLz

 

[hit_fido]

... they play DDO and like the game.

How I'm interpreting this: (1) they like DDO; (2) day in and day out they make a deliberate choice to spend some of their time to play DDO; yet despite (1) and (2) they wont recommend someone else try the game and allow for the possibility that a new player, just like them, might end up liking and playing DDO despite whatever collection of grievances they have and that the new player might also end up with. Makes no sense at all. Sounds like a drug addict - "yeah I'm hooked on heroin but for gods sake please don't try it too".

I'm skeptical; I think whats fueling most of this is players using this as another opportunity to register displeasure over whatever issues are diminishing their enjoyment. "Sure, I just played DDO for four hours but I'm angry about X, Y and Z so hell no, I refuse to recommend the game".

Now if there are some posters here who legitimately quit the game and stopped playing over a sustained period of time (yet can't quit the forums) who are declaring a non-recommendation, that makes sense to me.

 

[Lazuli]

How I'm interpreting this: (1) they like DDO; (2) day in and day out they make a deliberate choice to spend some of their time to play DDO; yet despite (1) and (2) they wont recommend someone else try the game and allow for the possibility that a new player, just like them, might end up liking and playing DDO despite whatever collection of grievances they have and that the new player might also end up with. Makes no sense at all. Sounds like a drug addict - "yeah I'm hooked on heroin but for gods sake please don't try it too".

I'm skeptical; I think whats fueling most of this is players using this as another opportunity to register displeasure over whatever issues are diminishing their enjoyment. "Sure, I just played DDO for four hours but I'm angry about X, Y and Z so hell no, I refuse to recommend the game".

Now if there are some posters here who legitimately quit the game and stopped playing over a sustained period of time (yet can't quit the forums) who are declaring a non-recommendation, that makes sense to me.

It's not that. We are already established players, but starting now in this game is much harder than it was when we started.

In fact, I have brought many players to the game and many in that old times stayed. For a few years now, retention has been atrocious and I have stopped bringing in new players. In the old days my advice was "buy VIP for a few months, and as soon as you have cash, buy Menace." Menace gave turbine points, gave xp tome, gave a lot of useful things for a new player. For a very reasonable investment, newcomers managed to enter the game. Now the entry paywall is brutal.

The coupon is not permanent, so very soon they have to pay for packs, many xpacks all at ridiculous prices (in other games those prices are only maintained by the last, or at most the last two xpacks!), and all the millions of extras which has DDO in tomes, storage, extra races, etc. DDO doesn't even have the courtesy of giving the basic shaed bank like all games do nowadays. If you don't have VIP because you have the coupon, then you can't open hard or elite either. This is a common complaint among new players, who do not understand why they have to have VIP to be able to open a difficulty that is more difficult than normal, which quickly becomes trivial (and in addtion they need purchase the shared bank)

The difference with the veterans in power is also much larger, and it requires much more time to close the gap.

The game is good. But it is poorly run, with many more problems besides the constant nerfs that irritate people. Yes, when you are angry and thinking about quitting the game it is difficult to recommend it. But when you also see what awaits the new ones... well, if they're your friends, you'll want to be honest with them at least. And if, like in my case, you also have the opportunity to communicate with a broader audience... well, I have a reputation to maintain lol.

When I talk about this game now, I am very sincere about what it is. Of the good and the bad and I refrain from encouraging them to come or not trying it. If they want to come, at least they do it with their eyes open.

 

[Oliphant]

@hit_fido you basically said people on the thread can't see past their own nose and recommend the game if they like it and don't recommend the game if they don't like it and that's bad (oddly). So like and recommend is no go with you and not like and not recommend is no good with you. Then I said I actually like the game but would not recommend for NEW players and that was no go. What combinations are left? As far as I can tell the only acceptable answer with you is you don't like the game but do recommend it.

 

[hit_fido]

As far as I can tell the only acceptable answer with you is you don't like the game but do recommend it.

If you're spending (probably significant) time playing the game (which I assume is true for almost everyone still actively engaged in the forums), then it makes no sense at all to not recommend trying the game out for new players. That's it. Pretty simple.
If you're spending time playing the game then I also assume you like the game, otherwise I question why the hell anyone would waste time playing something they dislike.

It's not that. We are already established players, but starting now in this game is much harder than it was when we started.

Yeah, I dunno... to me the game is significantly easier to start out than any other time. The level of power available through class enhancement trees and the dramatically up-scaled loot available at low levels contributes to this. Players no longer need to use masterwork or maybe +1 swords til mid low levels. You can get some crazy random and named gear very early compared to the old days. Self healing is much more widely available, too.

The difference with the veterans in power is also much larger, and it requires much more time to close the gap.

No new players give a damn about closing any perceived power gaps, they care if the game is fun, and fun enough for them to spend time playing it. Leave it to them to decide that much by trying it out - in my opinion more people will dislike the basic game play than like it which is consistent with how DDO has been from the launch, but for people like us who still play it the game play is immensely fun, so I say recommend it and let them figure it out for themselves. All this stuff about power gaps and so on wont even come up at least until a new player has gone from 1-32, and maybe even dipped their toe into two or three different classes to cap to experience more of the game. It's irrelevant to the new player experience.

 

[Oliphant]

There's been too much progression attached to pretty bad levels of whale p2w and no good faith efforts to help with catch up mechanics or onboarding to recommend this to NEW players. I'm not new so these issues don't affect me. Would I like more new players, yeah I would, but I'm not going to be recommending the game to them. At some point you can continue to express how you can't even understand such an argument but that's a you issue. If you want to see the symmetry, I'm not investing much of anything in alts for similar reasons. If I won't subject myself to grinding an alt, with all my game knowledge and BTA gear, what's so hard to understand about me not recommending the game to new players? Not recommending the game IS leaving it to them to decide, btw.

 

[Lazuli]

If you're spending (probably significant) time playing the game (which I assume is true for almost everyone still actively engaged in the forums), then it makes no sense at all to not recommend trying the game out for new players. That's it. Pretty simple.
If you're spending time playing the game then I also assume you like the game, otherwise I question why the hell anyone would waste time playing something they dislike.

Yeah, I dunno... to me the game is significantly easier to start out than any other time. The level of power available through class enhancement trees and the dramatically up-scaled loot available at low levels contributes to this. Players no longer need to use masterwork or maybe +1 swords til mid low levels. You can get some crazy random and named gear very early compared to the old days. Self healing is much more widely available, too.

No new players give a damn about closing any perceived power gaps, they care if the game is fun, and fun enough for them to spend time playing it. Leave it to them to decide that much by trying it out - in my opinion more people will dislike the basic game play than like it which is consistent with how DDO has been from the launch, but for people like us who still play it the game play is immensely fun, so I say recommend it and let them figure it out for themselves. All this stuff about power gaps and so on wont even come up at least until a new player has gone from 1-32, and maybe even dipped their toe into two or three different classes to cap to experience more of the game. It's irrelevant to the new player experience.

The gap between new and old players is much greater now, and the time to get closer to them is too. It matters little that in the elite the game is now easier. Elite is not the maximum difficulty now either. That doesn't mean that new players should be playing reaper from day one (they shouldn't). But it's the same as in the old days when they played normal, and anyway, now it's very difficult for them to find lfms below reaper.

And it's not true that new players don't worry about that. Nobody expects to reach a new game at the level of the veterans, but as soon as they find out about the reincarnation system and the thousand and one more grinds that this game has, they understand that the time to reach the veterans will not be normal. It is not a concern that they have on day 1, but something that they realize relatively quickly and works against their retention.

You can close your eyes if you want. I am very familiar with this, I have seen it too many times.

 

[Oliphant]

I don't want to see DDO shut down, but if Daybreak is drawing a line in the sand that their games need to focus on attracting new players versus trying to whittle down the player base to only whales to save on server costs, I would understand.

 

[DDO Gaming]

That doesn't mean that new players should be playing reaper from day one (they shouldn't). But it's the same as in the old days when they played normal, and anyway, now it's very difficult for them to find lfms below reaper.

This point is something else I like about raid/legends: you need to complete the entire adventure pack (or "campaign") on one setting before the next setting gets unlocked. AND...the level jump between settings is HUGE (about 15 levels). So normal can be completed by a team of level 40 characters but hard (the next setting) demands a team of level 55 characters.

Hence you spend a huge amount of time levellingup your characters just to be able to compete at each level

 

[Ellisaria]

There is more to life (or in this case, the complex questions of DDO) than the binary "yes it's good" or "no it's bad". Why can't I enjoy it for what it is but tell a potential player EXACTLY what they're getting into and let them make their own informed choice. The poll asked "would you recommend this game to a friend", well to me, FRIENDS don't let FRIENDS make uninformed decisions. Yes this game has wonderful depth of character customization, the TR system is unique (but a huge mountain), but there can be tremendous lag (so much so that you might swing your weapon for 30s and not hit a thing, but be dead by the time everything catches up. You might waste 20-30 minutes doing something and have to start over because of this), grouping can be difficult between incrowds, private parties, difficulty spread, and level lockouts on quests, inventory management is atrocious if you want to diversify classes and not regrind on one or two endlessly (and unlike some other games, there is no external site for tracking your gear), the graphics are old (but unless cutting edge graphics are a deal breaker, I think it still looks fine, even nice in some places). Who are you to come in here and shame and belittle an opposing opinion? It's a forum, not an echo chamber. Ever stop to think beyond your forum paladining to realize people are filling this survey out BECAUSE THEY CARE. They want to recommend the game they love to others but for x, y, and z reasons they don't or those people they do recommend it to don't stay. These are legitimate critiques that CAN help SSG improve their product. When you uninstall an app on your phone, do you not get asked why? That's the service provider looking for ways to prevent more uninstalls in the future.

 

[DDO Gaming]

I don't want to see DDO shut down, but if Daybreak is drawing a line in the sand that their games need to focus on attracting new players versus trying to whittle down the player base to only whales to save on server costs, I would understand.

only SSG and EG7 know the "revenue V cost" equation and unless there has been any advance notification that DDO is shutting down you can assume it remains safe. Furthermore I don;t think the devs would be investigation ways to replace gold rolls etc unless they knew DDOs future remained secure

 

[hit_fido]

Not recommending the game IS leaving it to them to decide, btw.

Friend: "Oh you're playing DDO?"

Player: "Yeah I spent 8 hours this weekend, had fun, leveled up this new build and farmed another sentient weapon slot. I'll play it some more tonight, looking forward to it."

Friend: "Huh, should I try it out?"

Player: "Nah."

Makes no sense. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Oliphant]

I said not recommending. I didn't say recommend to not. This is basically what I'd tell them: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Lazuli]

Friend: "Oh you're playing DDO?"

Player: "Yeah I spent 8 hours this weekend, had fun, leveled up this new build and farmed another sentient weapon slot. I'll play it some more tonight, looking forward to it."

Friend: "Huh, should I try it out?"

Player: "Nah."

Makes no sense. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Friend: "Oh you're playing DDO?"

Player: "Yeah I spent 8 hours this weekend, had fun, leveled up this new build and farmed another sentient weapon slot. I'll play it some more tonight, looking forward to it."

Friend: "Huh, should I try it out?"

Player: "I'm going to tell you the good things about this game, but you should be aware of the drawbacks that you will find when you enter. And I'm going to explain those to you as well. It's a shame there are going to be so many."

 

[Oliphant]

If its fiscally irresponsible to give out gold rolls, what does that say about proportionality of revenue streams? Does not signal healthy business relationship with customers. I doubt most people are paying for gold rolls. What does that suggest then about a game that fiscally needs gold rolls even though most people don't use them? Sounds a bit like ravaging a small set of gambling addicts.

 

[DDO Gaming]

The gap between new and old players is much greater now, and the time to get closer to them is too. It matters little that in the elite the game is now easier. Elite is not the maximum difficulty now either. That doesn't mean that new players should be playing reaper from day one (they shouldn't). But it's the same as in the old days when they played normal, and anyway, now it's very difficult for them to find lfms below reaper.

Actually I recall suggesting a "softcore" server without the reaper mode and was mocked. However IF SSG does create a new server I think a non-reaper version will be more financially viable than a permanent hardcore (which will ONLY soakup gamers from other worlds)