Introducing our VIP Loyalty Reward Program!

[Shear-buckler]

I love playing devil's advocate, so I'm going to continue my unpopular opinion of supporting the VIP program. One of the features I use multiples times a life is the Saga skip feature. Especially when leveling through heroics, there tends to be that one quest that just sucks to complete on my current build or it's too long/time consuming: Needle in a Feystack, Forbidden Temple, Smash and Burn, In The Belly of the Beast are favorites of mine to skip. In legendary levels, I just skip the longest quest when I'm just interested in the saga reward.

That's constructing a straw man, not playing the devils advocate. No one is saying that there are no benefits to VIP. What people are saying is that VIP has been heavily devalued by the free codes and the move to paid expansions and this loyalty bonus does not come anywhere close to make up for it.

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

That's constructing a straw man, not playing the devils advocate. No one is saying that there are no benefits to VIP. What people are saying is that VIP has been heavily devalued by the free codes and the move to paid expansions and this loyalty bonus does not come anywhere close to make up for it.

The free codes made the quest access portion of VIP MORE valuable. This is still a PVE cooperative game. All your guildies, friends and people you could potentially group with now have the same access to content you have. Also, it brought more people to the game for us to play with. Many thanks to the dev team for making these once-exclusive VIP benefits more beneficial to everyone, including VIPs.

Oh, and they did free gold rolls for a year. And the new VIP Loyalty Reward benefits are pretty sweet.

 

[rabidfox]

The value of VIP to me is comparing what it offers (that I don't already have) vs what I get by buying the same amount in straight up points (and I can obtain with said points).

 

[Aelonwy]

The value of VIP to me is comparing what it offers (that I don't already have) vs what I get by buying the same amount in straight up points (and I can obtain with said points).

Caveat: Also weighted by not just what you get but by what you would have intentionally wanted/purchased.

 

[rabidfox]

Caveat: Also weighted by not just what you get but by what you would have intentionally wanted/purchased.

That's part of how I weight it. Lots of things (like the small baggies) are things I wouldn't spend points on so they're nothing I care about if I get. They hold zero value to me despite the value SSG gives them.

Hard/elite unlocks on new characters hold zero value to me outside HC. Etc.

 

[Warsaga]

I love playing devil's advocate, so I'm going to continue my unpopular opinion of supporting the VIP program. One of the features I use multiples times a life is the Saga skip feature. Especially when leveling through heroics, there tends to be that one quest that just sucks to complete on my current build or it's too long/time consuming: Needle in a Feystack, Forbidden Temple, Smash and Burn, In The Belly of the Beast are favorites of mine to skip. In legendary levels, I just skip the longest quest when I'm just interested in the saga reward.



I'll never understand why the bypass isn't a staple store item or a VIP feature. I'm not gonna buy an Otto's box just for one, but there are times where I'd buy a reset timer without all the stuff that comes in a box. When I have to wait to TR, it just makes me go play another game.

Well, thats a good and well thought out point. I just did FT blind for the first time yesterday and thats definitely one I would've skipped had I known more about it. The VIP skip feature is valuable, and SSG leaning more into similar type features instead of bags of junk would encourage more people to sub imo.

 

[Shear-buckler]

The free codes made the quest access portion of VIP MORE valuable. This is still a PVE cooperative game. All your guildies, friends and people you could potentially group with now have the same access to content you have. Also, it brought more people to the game for us to play with. Many thanks to the dev team for making these once-exclusive VIP benefits more beneficial to everyone, including VIPs.

Oh, and they did free gold rolls for a year. And the new VIP Loyalty Reward benefits are pretty sweet.

That's some heavy copium and obviously false.

I am also glad for the free codes as a VIP, but VIP still lost value compared to premium. It's not like non-VIP players did not get more players to play with, too.

The comparison is not between "VIP with less people to play with" vs "VIP with more players to play with", but rather VIP vs premium with the same content and the same number of people to play with.

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

That's some heavy copium and obviously false.

I am also glad for the free codes as a VIP, but VIP still lost value compared to premium. It's not like non-VIP players did not get more players to play with, too.

The comparison is not between "VIP with less people to play with" vs "VIP with more players to play with", but rather VIP vs premium with the same content and the same number of people to play with.

Many thanks to the dev team for making these once-exclusive VIP benefits more beneficial to everyone, including VIPs.

I pointed out it made something that was once-exclusive to VIP more beneficial to EVERYONE. I think that's great. Both I, and others, have already pointed out numerous advantages VIP provides outside of access to all content which we feel makes it worth the $8.25 - $15/month people pay for it. I actually streamed about it and discussed all the value in VIP today and in the VIP Loyalty Rewards program here: Griglok Talks about the new VIP Loyalty Rewards program... and why it is AWESOME!!!

That's part of how I weight it. Lots of things (like the small baggies) are things I wouldn't spend points on so they're nothing I care about if I get. They hold zero value to me despite the value SSG gives them.

Hard/elite unlocks on new characters hold zero value to me outside HC. Etc.

I think your approach is easy to emapthize with. Even if we disagree on which parts of the VIP benefits hold significant value- it's easy to understand why folks who don't find value in certain benefits will not be motivated to subscribe.


As a general aside, I think these conversations are very difficult to have over forums. I would like to host another roundtable discussion of what folks think about the VIP program, and what they would like to get out of it. Everyone is welcome to participate, even and especially those who aren't happy with the rewards. If anyone is interested in participating, shoot me a PM here on the forums and I'll reach out to coordinate.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I pointed out it made something that was once-exclusive to VIP more beneficial to EVERYONE. I think that's great. Both I, and others, have already pointed out numerous advantages VIP provides outside of access to all content which we feel makes it worth the $8.25 - $15/month people pay for it. I actually streamed about it and discussed all the value in VIP today and in the VIP Loyalty Rewards program here: Griglok Talks about the new VIP Loyalty Rewards program... and why it is AWESOME!!!

You are not listening.

I agree that it was beneficial for everyone. That is completely beside the point. It still devalued VIP compared to non-VIP.

I agree that there are still benefits to VIP that are worth it for some people. That is completely beside the point. It still devalued VIP compared to non-VIP.

 

[Deleaka]

VIP how it is now for me is just 10% perm exp, saga skip mehh i like to do the quests ,move speed pendant of time or your mount is fast enough, Shared Bank why would you not buy this ? gold rolls 1 each week most of the time you get some random junk who cares all i rly care for is the exp or loot boosts if i want something extra like a cosmetic or heart of wood i would just buy it from the store

 

[seph1roth5]

I think people are still missing a big point. All you people that think this new program is fine/good, were you not going to vip and this made you change your mind? If they had done NOTHING to improve vip would it have changed how you value vip at all? If not, then this program is irrelevant to you. The fact that it exists is just a bonus, so there's no reason to even be a part of the argument lol.

It looks like people that had unsubbed, or were waiting to see this program before deciding whether to vip, are almost nearly all dissatisfied.

 

[Xezon]

I can honestly say that after reading through all of the new VIP benefits my reaction was solidly:

"Oh. A bunch of cosmetics. Where's the actual benefits?"

Is that's why you decided to call them "loyalty rewards," cause there's really no benefit to having them?
Joking aside, I don't really see any of these being a true incentive to keep VIP sub. Cosmetics just don't sell $15/month subs. Yes it's in addition to the current benefits, but imho it would have been better to take things people like about the current benefits and make them ramp up the longer you are subbed.

VIP exp 10%>12%>14%>16%>18%>20%.
Named Drop Increase 5%>6%>7%>8%>9%>10%
Sentient EXP Booster: 10%>12%>14%>16%>18%>20%
Reaper EXP Booster: 5%>6%>7%>8%>9%>10%

If you cycle those scaling increases where each month you get one step higher on two of them there's almost a years worth of benefits.

Example: Month 1: VIP EXP increases from 10% to 12% and Reaper EXP Increases by 5%. Month 2: Named Drop Increases 5% and Sentient exp is boosted 10%, in addition to the perks of month 1. Month 3 VIP exp increases to 14% and Named drops to 6% along with retaining month 2's benefits, and so on and so forth.

Those benefits would be worth to me personally. It'd keep me wanting to keep my subscription up to not lose my progress and benefits and still be useful pretty much no matter what I was doing or where I was at in my progression.

 

[Deleaka]

I can honestly say that after reading through all of the new VIP benefits my reaction was solidly:

"Oh. A bunch of cosmetics. Where's the actual benefits?"

Is that's why you decided to call them "loyalty rewards," cause there's really no benefit to having them?
Joking aside, I don't really see any of these being a true incentive to keep VIP sub. Cosmetics just don't sell $15/month subs. Yes it's in addition to the current benefits, but imho it would have been better to take things people like about the current benefits and make them ramp up the longer you are subbed.

VIP exp 10%>12%>14%>16%>18%>20%.
Named Drop Increase 5%>6%>7%>8%>9%>10%
Sentient EXP Booster: 10%>12%>14%>16%>18%>20%
Reaper EXP Booster: 5%>6%>7%>8%>9%>10%

If you cycle those scaling increases where each month you get one step higher on two of them there's almost a years worth of benefits.

Example: Month 1: VIP EXP increases from 10% to 12% and Reaper EXP Increases by 5%. Month 2: Named Drop Increases 5% and Sentient exp is boosted 10%, in addition to the perks of month 1. Month 3 VIP exp increases to 14% and Named drops to 6% along with retaining month 2's benefits, and so on and so forth.

Those benefits would be worth to me personally. It'd keep me wanting to keep my subscription up to not lose my progress and benefits and still be useful pretty much no matter what I was doing or where I was at in my progression.

they should give us something of the Value what they took away tbf .. all paid content free to play for ViP's but i would settle for this, right now your paying $200 a year if you have VIP + xpac that was all rolled into ViP a few years back

 

[Shear-buckler]

I can honestly say that after reading through all of the new VIP benefits my reaction was solidly:

"Oh. A bunch of cosmetics. Where's the actual benefits?"

Is that's why you decided to call them "loyalty rewards," cause there's really no benefit to having them?
Joking aside, I don't really see any of these being a true incentive to keep VIP sub. Cosmetics just don't sell $15/month subs. Yes it's in addition to the current benefits, but imho it would have been better to take things people like about the current benefits and make them ramp up the longer you are subbed.

VIP exp 10%>12%>14%>16%>18%>20%.
Named Drop Increase 5%>6%>7%>8%>9%>10%
Sentient EXP Booster: 10%>12%>14%>16%>18%>20%
Reaper EXP Booster: 5%>6%>7%>8%>9%>10%

If you cycle those scaling increases where each month you get one step higher on two of them there's almost a years worth of benefits.

Example: Month 1: VIP EXP increases from 10% to 12% and Reaper EXP Increases by 5%. Month 2: Named Drop Increases 5% and Sentient exp is boosted 10%, in addition to the perks of month 1. Month 3 VIP exp increases to 14% and Named drops to 6% along with retaining month 2's benefits, and so on and so forth.

Those benefits would be worth to me personally. It'd keep me wanting to keep my subscription up to not lose my progress and benefits and still be useful pretty much no matter what I was doing or where I was at in my progression.

Something like that would be perfect.
The endless ladder of junk they are offering now is a huge mistake.

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

You are not listening.

I agree that it was beneficial for everyone. That is completely beside the point. It still devalued VIP compared to non-VIP.

I agree that there are still benefits to VIP that are worth it for some people. That is completely beside the point. It still devalued VIP compared to non-VIP.

I am listening, and understanding you... I just disagree.

There was a time when "all non-expansion quests included with VIP" meant MORE. There was a time when you needed all of the content in order to level from 1-20. Over time they started giving away content, and included a lot of content in the expansions which covered the "gaps" where it used to be tough to level. Some would (and have) argued that a lot of the content the devs gave away with the coupon codes was "dead" content that doesn't get run much anyway. No matter what your view is on the latter point, the VIP perk of "all non-expansion quests are accessible" has consistently diminshed in value over time. By the time the dev team gave it away to everyone, it held much less value than it previously had. Despite this, the move was classy during COVID and also managed to pull in additional players. It also has the added benefit that more people now have access to content that they otherwise would be very unlikely to purchase since it's "dead" or run less frequently.

Yes, if you compare a "list of exclusive to VIP benefits" before and after the coupon, there is one less thing to list. A minor thing, that held significantly less value than it had previously. And they gave away gold rolls for a year plus to VIPs. And there's a ton of other perks they just introduced. The value items they added far outweigh the coupon they gave away (which also added value for VIPs for the two reason's I've already mentioned).

Would love to discuss this with you though! Let me know if you want to hop onto an upcoming livestream to discuss.

 

[Deleaka]

I am listening, and understanding you... I just disagree.

There was a time when "all non-expansion quests included with VIP" meant MORE. There was a time when you needed all of the content in order to level from 1-20. Over time they started giving away content, and included a lot of content in the expansions which covered the "gaps" where it used to be tough to level. Some would (and have) argued that a lot of the content the devs gave away with the coupon codes was "dead" content that doesn't get run much anyway. No matter what your view is on the latter point, the VIP perk of "all non-expansion quests are accessible" has consistently diminshed in value over time. By the time the dev team gave it away to everyone, it held much less value than it previously had. Despite this, the move was classy during COVID and also managed to pull in additional players. It also has the added benefit that more people now have access to content that they otherwise would be very unlikely to purchase since it's "dead" or run less frequently.

Yes, if you compare a "list of exclusive to VIP benefits" before and after the coupon, there is one less thing to list. A minor thing, that held significantly less value than it had previously. And they gave away gold rolls for a year plus to VIPs. And there's a ton of other perks they just introduced. The value items they added far outweigh the coupon they gave away (which also added value for VIPs for the two reason's I've already mentioned).

Would love to discuss this with you though! Let me know if you want to hop onto an upcoming livestream to discuss.

there was a time when the game was sub only for the price of that you got everything.. then it went f2p with VIP, VIP give you all the content in the game then they removed the newer xpacs from the VIP program and its just got worse and worse over time

 

[rabidfox]

It wouldn't be of value to me, but they really should make all the older expansion content available to VIP (the trove stuff at the least, maybe a few expansions beyond that). I hate telling new players that bought VIP, oh, but you can't do all the commonly run stuff like Ravenloft nor the typical epic leveling content of MotU/Shadowfell.

 

[Lazuli]

It wouldn't be of value to me, but they really should make all the older expansion content available to VIP (the trove stuff at the least, maybe a few expansions beyond that). I hate telling new players that bought VIP, oh, but you can't do all the commonly run stuff like Ravenloft nor the typical epic leveling content of MotU/Shadowfell.

Yes, I have said it so many times... in other times VIP was great for new people because it gave them everything they needed. Now, they keep wondering how it is possible that they have to buy all those xpacks at full price and also all the packs, many races, tomes... They see the paywall, and they leave.

 

[Deleaka]

if its older than a year put it in the VIP program then put all the extras on the store including the hirelings pets ect ect would be good

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

The sentient XP gem should be increased. Can we please change the 10% item wear (which no longer has much practical purpose since Legendary items don't take wear) to a 10% XP boost? Let's forgo the haggling and just make it 5%

The Stormcloud mount and lightning trail look awesome. Extra unique bank slots are always welcome. Add in some XP bonus and I'd say you are right about there. Nice effort, big improvement.