Introducing our VIP Loyalty Reward Program!

[Shear-buckler]

I am listening, and understanding you... I just disagree.

There was a time when "all non-expansion quests included with VIP" meant MORE. There was a time when you needed all of the content in order to level from 1-20. Over time they started giving away content, and included a lot of content in the expansions which covered the "gaps" where it used to be tough to level. Some would (and have) argued that a lot of the content the devs gave away with the coupon codes was "dead" content that doesn't get run much anyway. No matter what your view is on the latter point, the VIP perk of "all non-expansion quests are accessible" has consistently diminshed in value over time. By the time the dev team gave it away to everyone, it held much less value than it previously had. Despite this, the move was classy during COVID and also managed to pull in additional players. It also has the added benefit that more people now have access to content that they otherwise would be very unlikely to purchase since it's "dead" or run less frequently.

Yes, if you compare a "list of exclusive to VIP benefits" before and after the coupon, there is one less thing to list. A minor thing, that held significantly less value than it had previously. And they gave away gold rolls for a year plus to VIPs. And there's a ton of other perks they just introduced. The value items they added far outweigh the coupon they gave away (which also added value for VIPs for the two reason's I've already mentioned).

Would love to discuss this with you though! Let me know if you want to hop onto an upcoming livestream to discuss.

Sorry, but you are not getting the specific point I am making.

Whether or not the gold rolls makes up for the lost value or the significance of the packs to the VIP benefits can only be discussed AFTER you acknowledge the fact that the free code and the move to paid expansions has devalued VIP in the first place.

Discussing the current value of VIP is moot because the major factor of whether or not VIP is a worth it is your economic situation. For me the cost of VIP is completely insignificant and I really don't care that they made is less valuable.
What we can see though is that they have spend a lot of time and effort on promising and implementing a system to improve the value of VIP, so clearly the ones with the data have at some point decided that they could make more money if they made VIP better. Sadly as such a system the one we got is very bad. The only ones cheering for it are people like you who already are VIP. For people whom VIP represents an amount of money with tangible opportunity costs there is very little chance that the new system will sway them to sub.
There is also another dimension to the problems with the new system, not only are the rewards bad, they can never become particularly good either because they set it up as an endlessly stacking ladder that is impossible to catch up on. With the current system increasing the bonuses would likely cause far more problems down the road than it would solve today.

 

[Jasparius]

This right here is why we don't get permanent daily gold rolls...

With permanent daily Gold rolls I'd probably be permanently VIP...

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

Sorry, but you are not getting the specific point I am making.

Whether or not the gold rolls makes up for the lost value or the significance of the packs to the VIP benefits can only be discussed AFTER you acknowledge the fact that the free code and the move to paid expansions has devalued VIP in the first place.

I understand and disagree. When the packs were included with VIP they didn't come with extra bank storage, mounts, cosmetics, teleport items, hirelings, or any of the "extra" things I love which are included in the expansions. I've also already addressed why I feel the free code made that portion of VIP more valuable than it had been in it's previously state which was much depreciated as it was.

Discussing the current value of VIP is moot because the major factor of whether or not VIP is a worth it is your economic situation. For me the cost of VIP is completely insignificant and I really don't care that they made is less valuable.
What we can see though is that they have spend a lot of time and effort on promising and implementing a system to improve the value of VIP, so clearly the ones with the data have at some point decided that they could make more money if they made VIP better. Sadly as such a system the one we got is very bad. The only ones cheering for it are people like you who already are VIP. For people whom VIP represents an amount of money with tangible opportunity costs there is very little chance that the new system will sway them to sub.

Of perhaps significant note would be to consider that the price of VIP has never gone up. Adjusted for inflation in the US... $10 in 2014 is the equivalent of paying $13.19 for VIP today. Except the cost of VIP hasn't been adjusted for inflation. So that $10/mo people pay today is the equivalent of if VIP had only cost $7.58 in 2014.

There is also another dimension to the problems with the new system, not only are the rewards bad, they can never become particularly good either because they set it up as an endlessly stacking ladder that is impossible to catch up on. With the current system increasing the bonuses would likely cause far more problems down the road than it would solve today.

I don't disagree with this. However, this type of setup ensures that VIP will only become more valuable over time. It also encourages folks to opt-in early. Players asked the dev team to add more value. Players asked the dev team to show appreciation for folks who kept VIP for an extended period of time. They did both.

 

[Mindos]

since Legendary items don't take wear

Wait, what?

 

[seph1roth5]

Wait, what?

Not legendary items, NAMED items don't take permanent damage.

 

[G.W.]

Not legendary items, NAMED items don't take permanent damage.

That's not correct, it's BOUND items that don't take permanent damage.
I have some named items that have permanent damage.

 

[Guntango]

I understand and disagree. When the packs were included with VIP they didn't come with extra bank storage, mounts, cosmetics, teleport items, hirelings, or any of the "extra" things I love which are included in the expansions. I've also already addressed why I feel the free code made that portion of VIP more valuable than it had been in it's previously state which was much depreciated as it was.

Of perhaps significant note would be to consider that the price of VIP has never gone up. Adjusted for inflation in the US... $10 in 2014 is the equivalent of paying $13.19 for VIP today. Except the cost of VIP hasn't been adjusted for inflation. So that $10/mo people pay today is the equivalent of if VIP had only cost $7.58 in 2014.


I don't disagree with this. However, this type of setup ensures that VIP will only become more valuable over time. It also encourages folks to opt-in early. Players asked the dev team to add more value. Players asked the dev team to show appreciation for folks who kept VIP for an extended period of time. They did both.

“It’s good enough” is a terrible perspective. It’s laughably bad but you won’t let go. You have to correct everyone on how fine it is, almost as if you designed this disaster and have pride in authorship. Did you design this ****?

Please, once again, tell me you see my point and you disagree. Again and again, over and over. Because that’s going to magically make this garbage smell better.

 

[Greatpumpkin]

I'm happy to see them trying, but this is mainly a miss.

As VIP, gain a few spots of storage, a few character spots, and a mount - While Active Only. Cosmetics just aren't going to make a difference.

Now, a few VIP-while-active-only things that might:

1) +5% omnipotent bonus to run speed. (in or out of quest) No minimum level, all characters on the account, stacks with everything.
2) +10% omnipotent bonus to mount run speed. No minimum level, all characters on the account, stacks with everything.
3) A d20 guild ship clicky. (like Guild Airship Beacon, but works as the d12, for individual.) No minimum level, all characters on the account.
4) A flying cloud cosmetic mount's a nice idea. How about some variety? Flying carpet? Sedgeway?

You'll note these are all Quality of Life ideas. DDO's a little grindy. These might help.

Thank you for trying, effort is appreciated. Won't influence me enought to affect whether or not to VIP though.

(p.s. pet peeve - when i came back after several years, I did carry airship beacons, as a courtesy to those re-introducing me to ddo. however, after a short while, I stopped. the constant, "invite please" whining got to be just too damn much. If airship beacons changed from "guildies default only" to "anyone in a guild in range", that would be a big improvement.)

 

[Dude]

Not legendary items, NAMED items don't take permanent damage.

That's good to know. I'm still learning the game and have been chasing past lives, but it looks like I need to start looking more at named gear. Thank you.

 

[seph1roth5]

That's not correct, it's BOUND items that don't take permanent damage.
I have some named items that have permanent damage.

Is there many unbound named items that don't...bind on equip? Maybe planar gird and...? Either way, the list has to be stupid small lol.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I understand and disagree. When the packs were included with VIP they didn't come with extra bank storage, mounts, cosmetics, teleport items, hirelings, or any of the "extra" things I love which are included in the expansions. I've also already addressed why I feel the free code made that portion of VIP more valuable than it had been in it's previously state which was much depreciated as it was.

If you disagree you dont understand because it's not a matter of opinion. Praise the new system all you like, we can disagree about that. Value the gold rolls all you want, we can disagree about that. We can disagree what the value of the included content in VIP too.
We cannot however disgaree that making an item included in VIP free is when taken by itself lowering the value of VIP. We have no common framework of value, language or logic if your position is that you disagree on that.

Of perhaps significant note would be to consider that the price of VIP has never gone up. Adjusted for inflation in the US... $10 in 2014 is the equivalent of paying $13.19 for VIP today. Except the cost of VIP hasn't been adjusted for inflation. So that $10/mo people pay today is the equivalent of if VIP had only cost $7.58 in 2014.

No, that's irrelevant. As I said the devs have gone through a great deal of work to improve VIP. They have the numbers and have found that VIP should be improved. They just ended up doing it in a comically bad way.

I don't disagree with this. However, this type of setup ensures that VIP will only become more valuable over time. It also encourages folks to opt-in early. Players asked the dev team to add more value. Players asked the dev team to show appreciation for folks who kept VIP for an extended period of time. They did both.

Those points are completely trivial to achieve. They could easily be done with a system that wasn't less well recieved than the average nerf.

A few years down the line the proposition of "welcome to DDO, please join the reward track that you will literally never catch up on" will not look particularly rewarding or welcoming.

 

[dur]

We’re looking for big numbies here, not outliers. If we were to perform a quick analysis to see how many VIPs run raids, I’d bet a very high percentage do. For you and the two other people that don’t, you’ll have to determine if the VIP bonus is a good enough deal while not participating in an enormous part of the game. I’m guessing you’ll be fine with it, since you’re already ok with missing out on so much.

I don't need to run Raids so I guess I'm Outlier #2.. at least, #2 POSTING on these forums. We all know that these forums totally represent the player base, right?

They already know, and release every new major update with…a raid.

Of course. Gotta be something to appeal to most players. The new Expansions also include MANY other things, including a regular Quest line.

Thanks for all of the replies. The general consensus seems to be “they work if you hold your mouth right”.

It's not rigged.

 

[Guntango]

I don't need to run Raids so I guess I'm Outlier #2.. at least, #2 POSTING on these forums. We all know that these forums totally represent the player base, right?


Of course. Gotta be something to appeal to most players. The new Expansions also include MANY other things, including a regular Quest line.


It's not rigged.

Yes, every revenue-generating ambition in the history of revenue relies on appealing to the masses, not outliers.

 

[DDO Gaming]

Whether or not the gold rolls makes up for the lost value or the significance of the packs to the VIP benefits can only be discussed AFTER you acknowledge the fact that the free code and the move to paid expansions has devalued VIP in the first place.

x is only devalued when it no longer possesses the same value as before. As far as I am aware no expansion from VIP has been removed from (for example) 2018 thus your claim VIP has been devalued by a loss of expansions is false.

If you are arguing that NEWER expansions cannot be access by VIP then its likely those expansions are licensed by SSG and the terms of that license prevent SSG from providing VIP access

 

[DDO Gaming]

Also recall the number of expansions SSG basically gave away free (100 DDO points is basically free). I think you're being unreasonable

 

[Guntango]

x is only devalued when it no longer possesses the same value as before. As far as I am aware no expansion from VIP has been removed from (for example) 2018 thus your claim VIP has been devalued by a loss of expansions is false.

If you are arguing that NEWER expansions cannot be access by VIP then its likely those expansions are licensed by SSG and the terms of that license prevent SSG from providing VIP access

No.

VIP used to grant access to content, whatever the cost of content was 100 years ago or 100 years in the future. Now, Content costs exponentially more when first released and when factoring in inflation, and there's a gaping black hole left in the VIP model. Obviously not filled by this attempt.

 

[DDO Gaming]

VIP used to grant access to content, whatever the cost of content was 100 years ago or 100 years in the future. Now, Content costs exponentially more when first released and when factoring in inflation, and there's a gaping black hole left in the VIP model. Obviously not filled by this attempt.

VIP access depends on expansion ownership, license terms etc. The SSG team has shrunk over the past 5+ years and its debateable whether they create any new content.

My guess is with the freebies the executive board changed strategy, offering the older content free then licensing newer content so it is only accessible by buying the products

 

[Guntango]

VIP access depends on expansion ownership, license terms etc. The SSG team has shrunk over the past 5+ years and its debateable whether they create any new content

Moving goalposts and pontificating about next year doesn't help support your claims. If they truly are understaffed and low on funds, maybe providing a valuable VIP program can help remedy some of that.

 

[Shear-buckler]

x is only devalued when it no longer possesses the same value as before. As far as I am aware no expansion from VIP has been removed from (for example) 2018 thus your claim VIP has been devalued by a loss of expansions is false.

If the content that VIP grants access to becomes free then VIP is devalued.
If SSG moves from releasing content that is included in VIP to releasing content that is not included in VIP then VIP is devalued.

This is not controversial and is the stated reason behind the additional VIP bonuses.

If you are arguing that NEWER expansions cannot be access by VIP then its likely those expansions are licensed by SSG and the terms of that license prevent SSG from providing VIP access

ROFL. No, it's not because of licencing, it's because paid expansions makes more money.

 

[DDO Gaming]

Moving goalposts and pontificating about next year doesn't help support your claims. If they truly are understaffed and low on funds, maybe providing a valuable VIP program can help remedy some of that.

is there anything in the VIP agreement that guarantees access to ALL DDO content? If I recall back in 2018 when I first purchased VIP there was content that remained locked. So VIP only offered MOST expansions