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[rabidfox]

No, it's more than just a QoL change, it's a change that removes an intrinsic weakness from these casters, and gives them the only advantage left to prepared casters. Do I need color spray for Baba? No problem, I change it before the raid. Do I need sunburst for THTH? No problem, I'll change it for the raid. Do I need flesh to stone? No problem, I'll change it and take it off later.

No. The *only* weakness spontaneous casters have over prepared casters is that they have a smaller spellbook. If you give them the ability to change it at will before each quest or raid that is a BIG ADVANTAGE.

Autofilling the spellbook of a prepared spellcaster (something that already happens with the cleric or druid, by the way) is NOT a comparable advantage.

If people are that sweaty about a raid, they're probably burning bloods and/or waiting out 3 days between swaps. I can see why someone might not like that (I understand why you don't); but I see so few casters in the runs I do at cap these days it wouldn't even bother me. I have so many issues with a ton of caster builds out there (no bypasses <sad noises> and other stuff) that I guess this change is just a win to me for the occasional person I see on discord that made bad choices and is now stuck either needing a blood or waiting it out.

 

[DBZ]

Yeah you know the reasons why

 

[Lazuli]

If people are that sweaty about a raid, they're probably burning bloods and/or waiting out 3 days between swaps. I can see why someone might not like that (I understand why you don't); but I see so few casters in the runs I do at cap these days it wouldn't even bother me. I have so many issues with a ton of caster builds out there (no bypasses <sad noises> and other stuff) that I guess this change is just a win to me for the occasional person I see on discord that made bad choices and is now stuck either needing a blood or waiting it out.

Few casters raid because the new raids are all dps tests that casters don't have mana endurance to deal with. That, and the successive nerfs have made many people move towards other styles. The devs need to better design the new raids so that casters have a role and should undo the excessive nerfs that have destroyed spellcasters, but one thing has nothing to do with the other.

That has nothing to do with the fact that you can't give the advantage of one class to another class and call it a VIP perk. It's not fair. It's unbalancing.

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

If people are that sweaty about a raid, they're probably burning bloods and/or waiting out 3 days between swaps. I can see why someone might not like that (I understand why you don't); but I see so few casters in the runs I do at cap these days it wouldn't even bother me. I have so many issues with a ton of caster builds out there (no bypasses <sad noises> and other stuff) that I guess this change is just a win to me for the occasional person I see on discord that made bad choices and is now stuck either needing a blood or waiting it out.

It's a PVE game. We're about to run THTH and the divine doesn't have to pop back to a tavern to swap into Spawn Screen? Great! Running with a new(er) player and want to help them swap into more useful spells? Easy!

Wizards and Clerics still have a broader spell selection during the quest and can swap spells at shrines whereas Sorcerer and Favored Soul still need to be outside of a quest to swap. There's still different reasons to play the different classes. This is a clear QoL update and I love it.

 

[Lazuli]

It's a PVE game. We're about to run THTH and the divine doesn't have to pop back to a tavern to swap into Spawn Screen? Great! Running with a new(er) player and want to help them swap into more useful spells? Easy!

Wizards and Clerics still have a broader spell selection during the quest and can swap spells at shrines whereas Sorcerer and Favored Soul still need to be outside of a quest to swap. There's still different reasons to play the different classes. This is a clear QoL update and I love it.

No, if I have nothing against changing spells in public areas (a QoL perk), what I am against is that spontaneous casters can do it without cooldown. It doesn't matter how you want to disguise it because it benefits your characters, but that is completely changing the only weakness of these classes.

Is my wizard and my cleric going to receive the sorc's fast casting and huge spell pool from it? No, and probably many would say: that is giving the perk from one class to another. Well this is the same thing, giving spontaneous spellcasters the wizard's (and cleric's) only advantage.

And yes, the wizard can prepare more spells. And you know what? Wizard does not have enough slots to equip all the spellpowers it needs to use them. Even to raise the spell DC of various schools it needs to burn a huge amount of feats, because in this game, everything, everything, everything is designed for specialists. Enough of sophistry. If someone wants to change their entire spellbook before each quest, they can play a prepared spellcaster and take joy in its many disadvantages.

And there are many quests and raids where you can't even shrine.

 

[DBZ]

Alchemists already have it they play the way a wizard should they have the tools

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

No, if I have nothing against changing spells in public areas (a QoL perk), what I am against is that spontaneous casters can do it without cooldown. It doesn't matter how you want to disguise it because it benefits your characters, but that is completely changing the only weakness of these classes.

It doesn't just benefit my characters. It benefits me as a player when I interact with other VIP players who are playing casters. It's a huge win in a PVE game.

Is my wizard and my cleric going to receive the sorc's fast casting and huge spell pool from it? No, and probably many would say: that is giving the perk from one class to another. Well this is the same thing, giving spontaneous spellcasters the wizard's (and cleric's) only advantage.

It isn't their only disadvantage. The diminshed capacity for prepped spells is huge. Can you get by without those extra spell slots? Sure, but it's still a fairly significant disadvantage.

And yes, the wizard can prepare more spells. And you know what? Wizard does not have enough slots to equip all the spellpowers it needs to use them. Even to raise the spell DC of various schools it needs to burn a huge amount of feats, because in this game, everything, everything, everything is designed for specialists. Enough of sophistry. If someone wants to change their entire spellbook before each quest, they can play a prepared spellcaster and take joy in its many disadvantages.

And there are many quests and raids where you can't even shrine.

You get +3 DCs to any specific school from feats. In a world where DC casters are hitting 140+, those 3 from feats are not what's preventing you from using/not using additional spells.

This is a QoL update and a welcome change. There's still plenty of reasons to play Cleric and Wizard.

 

[Lazuli]

It doesn't just benefit my characters. It benefits me as a player when I interact with other VIP players who are playing casters. It's a huge win in a PVE game.

It isn't their only disadvantage. The diminshed capacity for prepped spells is huge. Can you get by without those extra spell slots? Sure, but it's still a fairly significant disadvantage.

You get +3 DCs to any specific school from feats. In a world where DC casters are hitting 140+, those 3 from feats are not what's preventing you from using/not using additional spells.

This is a QoL update and a welcome change. There's still plenty of reasons to play Cleric and Wizard.

No, it is not a QoL. No matter how you dress it up, it's a NUMERICAL advantage.

And if you enter that field, I want as QoL the fast casting and spell pool of the sorc on my cleric and my wizard. I want the % hps of the melees on my ranged arti. Why not? According to your reasoning it is QoL. It benefits everyone.

Let's not get into how the sorc are spoiled compared to the wizards, because we all know that the wizards are tremendously penalized by the current design of the devs...

 

[DBZ]

Roars no fail cc against reapers and the instakills are no fail in r10 vecnas if you build for them

 

[rabidfox]

As per what someone asked on the weekly stream today, if Cordovan could look into and let us know if the trail effect works with wings that would be good to know. As the FAQ only mentions it working with footprints.

 

[Sgreene]

I want to say that this system is very disappointing to me because it seems like SSG is viewing this as a "gift" for being VIP rather than a service they are selling to their customers. I've been VIP for a while and have been happy with the value of the program. I personally wish more content was included with VIP, but the things I wished VIP could have has never made me want to cancel my subscription. I think it's a great idea to find a way to show appreciation to customers for their loyalty and finding a way to say thank you to people who would have already been VIP without any more incentive. However, I think there should have been more attention to adding long term value to VIP first, and then designing a thank you system later.

You get a gift for free. You don't do anything to earn or pay for it. If I'm paying for VIP, then anything I get for being VIP isn't a gift or reward, it's a service I paid for. I find it frustrating that if I'm unable to log in during the month for any reason, then I miss out on a service I paid money for.

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

No, it is not a QoL. No matter how you dress it up, it's a NUMERICAL advantage.

And if you enter that field, I want as QoL the fast casting and spell pool of the sorc on my cleric and my wizard. I want the % hps of the melees on my ranged arti. Why not? According to your reasoning it is QoL. It benefits everyone.

Let's not get into how the sorc are spoiled compared to the wizards, because we all know that the wizards are tremendously penalized by the current design of the devs...

Turn Undead, Domains, expanded spell slots, and Heavy armor proficiency.

None of the items above are small things. There are still plenty of reasons to play Cleric/Wizard. I know you don't personally feel that this is true, however there are reasons people will still play Cleric and Wizard after this change. Overall- it's a wonderful QoL change.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

This is just following the same trend as everything else in the game. When proposed the majority say it's weaksauce - just like warlock, archery changes, imbues and so many other things in the game when they were introduced.

I predict that at some point in the future we are going to see threads saying there is too much of a power gap between vip and premium and it's unfair that it will take so long for new VIPs to catch up.

 

[Lazuli]

Turn Undead, Domains, expanded spell slots, and Heavy armor proficiency.

None of the items above are small things. There are still plenty of reasons to play Cleric/Wizard. I know you don't personally feel that this is true, however there are reasons people will still play Cleric and Wizard after this change. Overall- it's a wonderful QoL change.

It is not a QoL change, it is a change that affects an important class feature, therefore it is not a mere QoL change. I still say that if they give the spontaneous casters a generalist book, then give to the preparared ones the fast casting and the sorc spell point pool. According to you, it is a QoL change.

But I guess you can't expect anything else from this company, which has consistently coddled specialists and designed against generalist casters.

 

[Svirfneblin]

Kobold made VIP Loyalty Reward Program.​

Kobold still hate you!

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

It is not a QoL change, it is a change that affects an important class feature, therefore it is not a mere QoL change. I still say that if they give the spontaneous casters a generalist book, then give to the preparared ones the fast casting and the sorc spell point pool. According to you, it is a QoL change.

But I guess you can't expect anything else from this company, which has consistently coddled specialists and designed against generalist casters.

Swapping spells is a matter of time and convenience. Fast casting and spell point pool affect gameplay mid-quest. I don't view them as the same.

Cordovan did mention on today's Friday's at Four that they heard this particular piece of feedback. Not sure if they'll change it, but they did hear you. I hope they don't change it and still view it as a QoL change that will have an overall positive impact on the game.

 

[Lazuli]

Swapping spells is a matter of time and convenience. Fast casting and spell point pool affect gameplay mid-quest. I don't view them as the same.

Cordovan did mention on today's Friday's at Four that they heard this particular piece of feedback. Not sure if they'll change it, but they did hear you. I hope they don't change it and still view it as a QoL change that will have an overall positive impact on the game.

No, let's see, spells are the basic power tools of spellcasters. By design, spontaneous spellcasters have a reduced spellbook to compensate for other perks they have and that prepared spellcasters lack.

The limited spellbook is a class FEATURE. Having limited tools, aka spells, is a class FEATURE. Changing that trait changes the power of the class, very positively. A spontaneous spellcaster is not supposed to be able to freely switch spells as he pleases.

Fast casting and spell pool are other class features, exactly like the limited spellbook. You can't say "I like this class trait better, I'm going to give it to those who don't have it, but I'll retain this other one." No. If it seems wrong to you to share one, it should seem wrong to you to share the other. After all, is it more dangerous for the wizard to cast spells faster than for the sorc to have perfect spells for each quest, a trait that does not belong to him?

I'm glad devs listened to me. And I do hope they change it. It's ok to change spells in public areas, go ahead with that. It's not okay that spontaneous spellcasters don't have any cooldowns. If they want to give them some facilities, ok. But stop the madness of altering class traits so happily.

 

[Griglok (Karatemack)]

No, let's see, spells are the basic power tools of spellcasters. By design, spontaneous spellcasters have a reduced spellbook to compensate for other perks they have and that prepared spellcasters lack.

The limited spellbook is a class FEATURE. Having limited tools, aka spells, is a class FEATURE. Changing that trait changes the power of the class, very positively. A spontaneous spellcaster is not supposed to be able to freely switch spells as he pleases.

I view the in-quest stuff that happens as mechanically important. Delaying a player swapping spells on a character outside of a quest is a game feature not a class mechanic in my opinion.

Fast casting and spell pool are other class features, exactly like the limited spellbook. You can't say "I like this class trait better, I'm going to give it to those who don't have it, but I'll retain this other one." No. If it seems wrong to you to share one, it should seem wrong to you to share the other. After all, is it more dangerous for the wizard to cast spells faster than for the sorc to have perfect spells for each quest, a trait that does not belong to him?

I'm glad devs listened to me. And I do hope they change it. It's ok to change spells in public areas, go ahead with that. It's not okay that spontaneous spellcasters don't have any cooldowns. If they want to give them some facilities, ok. But stop the madness of altering class traits so happily.

I see your point of view. I won't be angry if they do away with it, but I am looking forward to the change if it goes live.

 

[Lazuli]

I view the in-quest stuff that happens as mechanically important. Delaying a player swapping spells on a character outside of a quest is a game feature not a class mechanic in my opinion.

I see your point of view. I won't be angry if they do away with it, but I am looking forward to the change if it goes live.

For a spellcaster there is nothing mechanically more important than spells!! They are your power tool! Having the tool is much more important than being able to use it a little faster or a few more times (spell points) lol

I know you think it would be a QoL, and I also understand your point of view, but it is not a good change to do it without limitations for those who by design must have a reduced spellbook. After all, you wouldn't consider it such a good change if having access to spells you wouldn't normally have would have little impact, would you?

You also have to realize that by facilitating these spell swaps you are also penalizing characters from prepared classes who normally have those spells and who will no longer be necessary because the spontaneous ones can do what they do, and even better because they retain the perks that a prepared caster does not have. So you can see, the change is not good for everyone. Over time there would be more and more characters discriminated because they do not belong to the right class.

 

[Tarrith]

Maybe VIP's should be able to play all available quests including expansions instead of this bucket list of trash.