Kali's Dark Apostate/Enlightened Spirit HYBRID Melee/Caster IMBUE build

Kalibano

Build Designer & Fun Lover!
Gear + filigrees fully updated in the live game
The plan is for a similar layout to be used for all my builds, once time allows.

Enjoy! :)
 

Scrag

Well-known member
This works, period.

I am only 16.5, but I am even missing gear slots. I can solo r1 without issue. I took only 4 points in dark apostate tree, but maxed out war priest and es and got my 3 points in pdk for the +tactics.

Points in dark apostate too early is... problematic. It really has to be pushed off until as late as possible so it doesn't interfere with self heal/sustain.

It will only get better. It is the most... interesting build. I question use of spells for damage, but I don't have l7 or 8 spells yet. (I might have l7 spells?)
 

Scrag

Well-known member
Heads up, i backed out yhe 4 points and put them elsewhere. I am wondering if core 4 in da is actually worth it... if not ibhave a spot to put that one ap...
 

Kalibano

Build Designer & Fun Lover!
Heads up, i backed out yhe 4 points and put them elsewhere. I am wondering if core 4 in da is actually worth it... if not ibhave a spot to put that one ap...
I find it worth it, personally speaking, for 2 key reasons:
  1. The stacking defensive bonuses, which are not easily obtainable elsewhere
  2. It synergises directly with 'Pray for Mercy [T4] and removes the saving throw for 2 spells I use all the time:
Bestow curse
> a v nice de-buff on its own right​
> lets some no-save spells do double damage​
> does no-save dmg vs undead​
Bane
> another useful de-buff​
> does AoE evil dmg with no save​

Pray for Mercy [T3]:
> makes Prayer, Bless and Bane do evil dmg (scales with light spellpower) per caster level with no save
> lets those no-save damage spells do double damage vs cursed enemies

Core 4 is the cheap slower version of the ability in tier 4 we can't get: Enhanced Curse III (on crit hits, curse enemies).

You do get quite a lot for 1 Ap with Core 4. Where were you considering to put this 1 Ap, instead?
 
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Scrag

Well-known member
I find it worth it, personally speaking, for 2 key reasons:
  1. The stacking defensive bonuses, which are not easily obtainable elsewhere
  2. It synergises directly with 'Pray for Mercy [T4] and removes the saving throw for 2 spells I use all the time:
Bestow curse
> a v nice de-buff on its own right​
> lets some no-save spells do double damage​
> does no-save dmg vs undead​
Bane
> another useful de-buff​
> does AoE evil dmg with no save​

Pray for Mercy [T3]:
> makes Prayer, Bless and Bane do evil dmg (scales with light spellpower) per caster level with no save
> lets those no-save damage spells do double damage vs cursed enemies

Core 4 is the cheap slower version of the ability in tier 4 we can't get: Enhanced Curse III (on crit hits, curse enemies).

You do get quite a lot for 1 Ap with Core 4. Where were you considering to put this 1 Ap, instead?
Warpriest t5 character level bab.

I find it cumbersome to mash divine whatever and trance every 60nseconds. No that isnt ideal, but i can handle a 2 min duration, or longer both, but that would require extend and there is no feat to replace except epic damage redux possibly.

The t5 basically means skipping on the divine whatsot bab spell, easier tobfeal with.

There really is no room for cutting corners, as i have exactly what is needed to make it work.

I did not notice i needed a +5 balance to get swf... that should be in the notes. It cost a dragon shard (cheap) and q4 shards because i was in a hurry to play and didnt want to wait 3 days to swap the second feat out for greater swf

Edit, anyone want to donate some ap tomes? Hah!
 
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Kalibano

Build Designer & Fun Lover!
Warpriest t5 character level bab.

I find it cumbersome to mash divine whatever and trance every 60nseconds. No that isnt ideal, but i can handle a 2 min duration, or longer both, but that would require extend and there is no feat to replace except epic damage redux possibly.

The t5 basically means skipping on the divine whatsot bab spell, easier tobfeal with.

There really is no room for cutting corners, as i have exactly what is needed to make it work.

I did not notice i needed a +5 balance to get swf... that should be in the notes. It cost a dragon shard (cheap) and q4 shards because i was in a hurry to play and didnt want to wait 3 days to swap the second feat out for greater swf

Edit, anyone want to donate some ap tomes? Hah!
I totally get you: to me, fun always takes the highest priority: whatever I do, whichever the build, it needs to feel fluid and fun to play, and not like a chore.

Ref Divine Might:
On this build I can just about cope with it lasting 60s only, but I can definitely see that this wouldn't work for everyone.​

Something to consider ref Divine Power:
The level 4 spell, at cap, has a much longer duration (as caster levels progress through Epic levels via the Epic Knowledge feat), even without the extend metamagic:​
Divine-Power-spell.jpg
Perhaps it would be the case of you swapping out of the tier 5 'Divine Power' enhancement, once the spell reaches a duration you consider bearable?​
With a spell that gives the same benefit, I personally find that T5 ability to be redundant, but again, I get that it permanently gives something you want, and removes the need to keep clicking every so often.​
This build is so Action Point starved, and by this I mean there are some very nice goodies I would love to add, but don't have points for, e.g.:
- Dark Apostate's:
> 'Enhanced curse III [T4]' (2 APs)​
> 'Return to Dusk [T4]' (2 APs)​
> 'Dark Judgement [T4]' (3 APs)​
- Warpriest's
> 'Divine Intervention [T5]' (2 APs)​

T5 Divine Power wouldn't personally make it into the list above.


Sorry to hear about the issue you has with Balance and the SWF feats. I had added a note to the main thread to try to prevent this exact thing from happening, but I can imagine that it could be easily missed, considering the amount of info that this (or any build tbh) ends up having to make it work.

Glad you managed to fix it without too much trouble: been down that road sooo many times, playing as many builds as I do :)
 
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Scrag

Well-known member
I totally get you: to me, fun always takes the highest priority: whatever I do, whichever the build, it needs to feel fluid and fun to play, and not like a chore.
--
2:24 is pretty reasonable and what I usually want from those kind of clickies. I forget a lot... But it is a long way to go. I might take the t5, unsure.

Having them be on the same timer helps a lot. Right now it is 1: and 1:24. I always activate both at the same time.

If I could steal one point, I would probably put it into divine might for two minutes, as that would be much cheaper on spell points.

It may not seem like much, but burning 30 seconds of buff time to refresh two at 1 minute stacks up... If a dungeon run lasts 15 minutes, thats 15*40, or (without shrine) 600 sp. That is a lot, especially before epic and legendary gear. Pushing both to two minutes means it is just 300 sp at a penalty of ~30ish sp, which is a lot easier to stomach. :) Activating 15 times (divine might) will run you 270 sp by itself, vrs activating it (same duration) 7.5 times costing just 112.5 sp.

I struggle with sp consumption on anything I run that doesn't run mostly on extreme low cost destiny attacks and slas. Finding a way to get that extra 1 ap from somewhere will really make a difference.

I can imagine that it could be easily missed, considering the amount of info that this (or any build tbh) ends up having to make it work.

Glad you managed to fix it without too much trouble: been down that road sooo many times, playing as many builds as I do :)

It might be in there and I blew through it... I grabbed the build, looked at the breakdowns, enhs, destinies (ok, not really destinies yet...). First time I have seen a build that required a tome. That would be something I think could go in a special tab like you have that is in BIG LETTERS. I actually bought a +2 racial tome just for this build... Thankfully I already had 6 +5 skill tomes, and I love balance anyway, so that was positive.
 

Kalibano

Build Designer & Fun Lover!
If I could steal one point, I would probably put it into divine might for two minutes, as that would be much cheaper on spell points.

It may not seem like much, but burning 30 seconds of buff time to refresh two at 1 minute stacks up... If a dungeon run lasts 15 minutes, thats 15*40, or (without shrine) 600 sp. That is a lot, especially before epic and legendary gear. Pushing both to two minutes means it is just 300 sp at a penalty of ~30ish sp, which is a lot easier to stomach. :) Activating 15 times (divine might) will run you 270 sp by itself, vrs activating it (same duration) 7.5 times costing just 112.5 sp.

I struggle with sp consumption on anything I run that doesn't run mostly on extreme low cost destiny attacks and slas. Finding a way to get that extra 1 ap from somewhere will really make a difference.
Very fair point, and this might be a consideration for some people running this build.

There are surely many ways to play this, but the way I play this at endgame level 32:
> I see this build as mostly melee, with a bit of casting hybridness, so I swing the sword + rune arm A LOT more than casting​
> the majority of the spells I cast are SLAs, so have very reduced cost (despite having all metas applied)​
> I never run out of spell points, and that is not counting the 3x spell storing rings I share and bring on all my alts​

The main rotation in in the top shortcut bar on the left (+the left most curse, which is the SLA)
Divine Punishment is mostly for bosses: it's not an SLA and has all metas applied, so ya, it's costly.
Dark-Apostate-Key-abilities-toolbar.jpg


Before buffing, I cast 'Turn the Page' from items (e.g. Litany of the Dead, or the cloak from FoM raid), so the cost is reduced.

First time I have seen a build that required a tome. That would be something I think could go in a special tab like you have that is in BIG LETTERS. I actually bought a +2 racial tome just for this build... Thankfully I already had 6 +5 skill tomes, and I love balance anyway, so that was positive.
Thanks for the feedback and suggestion: I wouldn't say it requires the racial tome, but it certainly helps! I don't want to make people think that without it the build won't work. Sure, some sacrifices will need to be made, but it can still work.
 

Scrag

Well-known member
Very fair point, and this might be a consideration for some people running this build.

There are surely many ways to play this, but the way I play:
> I do swing the sword + rune arm A LOT more than casting​
> the majority of the spells I cast are SLAs, so have very reduced cost (despite having all metas applied)​

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion: I wouldn't say it requires the racial tome, but it certainly helps! I don't want to make people think that without it the build won't work. Sure, some sacrifices will need to be made, but it can still work.

I saw you mention runearm a few times and just realized, wait! They aren't using powder keg anymore, and have macrotechnic? Hmmm. Need to look at the new destiny assignment!

I have a lot of runearms... any particular winners? I have 3 from vecna but not the raid arm...
 

Kalibano

Build Designer & Fun Lover!
I saw you mention runearm a few times and just realized, wait! They aren't using powder keg anymore, and have macrotechnic? Hmmm. Need to look at the new destiny assignment!

I have a lot of runearms... any particular winners? I have 3 from vecna but not the raid arm...
For this specific build, the Vecna raid one is, imo, superior to others: Dripping with Magma!

Unlike the Magma on the Dryad weapons, which only proc on melee attacks, this is is like the Red Dragon armor one (confirmed by Steestar):
Fo-M-Rune-Arm-Dripping-with-Magma.jpg


I believe the Magma procs scale with fire spellpower, though I have not seen a Dev confirmation of that. Assuming it does, this build has 705+, so v nice indeed.
 
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Fisto Mk I

Well-known member
I believe the Magma procs scale with fire spellpower, though I have not seen a Dev confirmation of that.
Don't think so, at least, for all my non-caster toons used DwM it just plain 50d20 fire damage per tick with full builded stacks independent from Fire SP. Anyway, it still BiS DoT effect for any slot.
 

Scrag

Well-known member
Don't think so, at least, for all my non-caster toons used DwM it just plain 50d20 fire damage per tick with full builded stacks independent from Fire SP. Anyway, it still BiS DoT effect for any slot.
FoM is slow to gather the runes needed as it seems to run only on hard.

I want to get the rune arm, and the gaunts. Lots and lots of runes!
 

Scrag

Well-known member
Heads up, struggling at 20 w/ kotb r1. Not sure if it is how I am playing, the gear I am using, or if r1 level 23 is too much for me at this level.

Any advice? I pumped my 15 points into macrotech, which may not have been the right spot to dump into to start?
 

Kalibano

Build Designer & Fun Lover!
Heads up, struggling at 20 w/ kotb r1. Not sure if it is how I am playing, the gear I am using, or if r1 level 23 is too much for me at this level.

Any advice? I pumped my 15 points into macrotech, which may not have been the right spot to dump into to start?
Hey Scrag,

Happy to share some comments/ suggestions, though not everything might suit your playstyle, as the below reflects my personal preferences and the way I like to play. You asked how I did it: I'm afraid the strategy is quite different from what some would consider 'the ordinary' :)


> More recently, I save level 18 and 19 quests (particularly heroic Vecna, for the loot, and the Amrath ones, for Yugo pots) to run @20. This nets me some good xp @early epic levels.

> I then use all my heroic sagas, with xp pots, to get me as far into the low epic levels as I can. This helps:
> extra ED points before doing any epic questing​
> meet pre-reqs for higher tiers (e.g. min lvl 23 for T3s)​
> run content 4 levels above the quest level and still get max xp​

> I frequently stay at a specific level range to farm gear (sometimes from new content, sometimes from a raid like VoN). Recently, I have been staying around level 20 on each alt, for as long as I can, to farm heroic Vecna gear and augments. I only progress once I am xp capped. Not everyone will care about that, or want to do it. I have 23 alts, so I care and benefit from having the gear available to me. And I hate zerging heroic quests @32 to get gear: I'd rather get reaper xp at the right level while doing it.

> In between that, I keep an eye on lfms and join groups doing stuff within my level range (i.e. mostly quests 4 levels below, but depending on the group, up to 4 levels above). I regularly hop onto 'levelling trains' for a lot of the low epic content: not only does it go faster, but I generally find grouping with others a more pleasant gaming experience. I'm here to have fun: I have a RL job to stress about, I don't stress about my hobbies ;)

> I only do specific quests that flag for raids, build up Sagas, and/or gives me specific favour (normally related to HPs). The rest I don't bother with at all, unless a group pops up in the lfm and I got nothing better to do (which rarely happens with 23 alts). I run Borderlands at level 1 (for xp and to secure the favor), haven't run it at level 20 in ages with any character.

> I don't go looking for the wizard in the forest and spend hours killing stuff until my eyes bleed. That's ridiculously boring, I'd have more fun staring at a wall :ROFLMAO:. Not for me, but it's a choice if you can bare that kind of strategy without burning out?

> I take my time: zerging to endgame is not my idea of fun, the journey is. When I do get to endgame, a new leg of the journey begins, where my idea of fun is to stay there and do mid-high reapers and raids, and only TR if absolutely needed (e.g. a new stronger race, or archetype). That's me.

> The builds you see in my threads show a picture of my alts in their endgame journey, basically :) So when designing builds, I place a lot more focus on what works at the endgame, rather than on what works for the earlier journey to get there.


> This wasn't designed to be, and neither pitched as, a solo build: soloing takes a lot more than a good build itself imo, as it involves careful gearing at level, strong content knowledge, tweaking things (depending on the build) that will need to be changed again later (often for a cost), etc.

> I change gear sets every 4 levels, and I do spend time planning what to wear to maximise my key strengths: not everyone likes to do that

> Whenever I solo content, I see this alt as a melee character, so I bring healing hirelings.

> If your plan is to exclusively solo content, perhaps you could go Divine Crusader first, to secure extra healing and dmg via Consecration and Smite Evil. You'll need to wait until 26 to get the CC aspect, which should greatly enhance your soloability.

> if you got deep enough pockets, you could go as a DC caster until you get CC from Consecration, and re-spec at that point? It depends on what you want to achieve, how fast u want to level, how much time u got. I did not struggle at all levelling, and I only run content @ min reaper 1 (and as previously mentioned, always 4 levels above the quest level). I save the thrill of challenge and reaper xp farming for endgame.

> Mechrotec was a late comer into the build (literally when it was released not too long ago): the previous destiny was Draconic, and mostly only for the imbue die. I don't recall going there first, but perhaps the rune arm extra dmg might be advantageous at this low stage?

Hope this was somewhat useful, and apologies in advance if it wasn't :)
 
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Soulcial

Weekend Warrior
I've been playing around with this build idea a bit.. and I've come to a spot where I just cant play a melee without haste boost. It's sad to say that it's the only real choice for dps. They'd have to probably at least triple melee power boost to make it close to a viable alternative.
So that being said, as I play around, I have ended up on 14/5/1 DA/wlk/fighter You lose all of the DA SLAs and 2 imbue dice from the tree.. but the attack speed is just too important for melee. I have racial completionist, and very close to epic completionist, just a heads up there.

The enhancements are 16 PDK, 23 ES, 34 warpriest, 13 DA, 10 kensei. I don't know if this just flat out changes your playstyle too much to be a viable alternative, but haste boost will make any melee *far* more viable.
Epic Destinies- 34 LD, 22 PA, 16 DC.. losing cower before me but retaining crusade buff. Primal mantle for +3 imbue dice and a big light dmg proc, epic strike would be dire charge.
Other nice little addition: +6 con/cha during action boost (3 more hit/dmg/tactics boost during divine might) and regenerating action boosts.
Edit: for lower epic destiny point toons, you could definitely swap to draconic for the +3 imbue dice instead of primal, at which point I'd recommend using LD mantle :)
 
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Kalibano

Build Designer & Fun Lover!
I've been playing around with this build idea a bit.. and I've come to a spot where I just cant play a melee without haste boost. It's sad to say that it's the only real choice for dps. They'd have to probably at least triple melee power boost to make it close to a viable alternative.
So that being said, as I play around, I have ended up on 14/5/1 DA/wlk/fighter You lose all of the DA SLAs and 2 imbue dice from the tree.. but the attack speed is just too important for melee. I have racial completionist, and very close to epic completionist, just a heads up there.

The enhancements are 16 PDK, 23 ES, 34 warpriest, 13 DA, 10 kensei. I don't know if this just flat out changes your playstyle too much to be a viable alternative, but haste boost will make any melee *far* more viable.
Epic Destinies- 34 LD, 22 PA, 16 DC.. losing cower before me but retaining crusade buff. Primal mantle for +3 imbue dice and a big light dmg proc, epic strike would be dire charge.
Other nice little addition: +6 con/cha during action boost (3 more hit/dmg/tactics boost during divine might) and regenerating action boosts.
Edit: for lower epic destiny point toons, you could definitely swap to draconic for the +3 imbue dice instead of primal, at which point I'd recommend using LD mantle :)
Hi @Soulcial

Thanks for sharing your experience with the build, and for contributing with specific suggestions and alternatives to playing this. This is a very welcome addition to this thread :)

Very interesting adjustments, and indeed a possible direction to take when/if players reach completionism, in light of all the extra action points required. I'd be very keen to see what a first life version of this would end up like, considering how AP starved I found mine to be. I'll try and play around with this at some point.


On a side note: I totally get what you are saying ref Haste boost. I personally hate the 'Haste boost tax' DPS builds are forced to pay because all the other boost options are just far worse. This bad 'meta' needs to change imo: either all boosts are made relevant and competitive, and classes offer the same options they have now, or just remove other boost options and give haste boost to all melee trees. Whenever there is only one clear winner/option, spending time creating alternatives is just wasteful: it just isn't fun. Might as well make one of those trees where choices are made for you on a straight line as you level up.

I do end up 'paying the tax' on nearly all of my DPS builds: this one just happened to be one of the ones I didn't. I can personally live without it (possibly because of SWF's extra speed?), and to me it's very viable. 'Viable' is a highly subjective concept, though, so opinions are highly likely to differ on that :)


Thanks again for your contribution (y)
 
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Soulcial

Weekend Warrior
No problem! I am currently running a 17/2/1 wiz/rogue/monk ek, because with imbue builds, the best single target dps is definitely in twf. That build even runs enough vistani to get core 3 doublestrike and haste boost, despite the actual tree being thematically irrelevant. I would LOVE to free up that 11 AP to put in another tree, either for higher DCs (currently stuck around 110 enchant/evo) or for more synergy elsewhere..
I really love the idea in general of bastard swords with both swf and thf capabilities. Hard to make work but seems very rewarding!
 
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