Update 66 Preview 1 - Epic Destiny Refresh

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rabidfox

The People's Champion
Developers only nerf stuff and almost never fix common issues...
The devs fix stuff constantly. Almost every update for ages has had at least one bug I've personally reported fixed (if not multiple). Depending on the nature of the bug and the quality of the bug report information, things tend to get fixed. Sometimes not at the rate I'd prefer and sometimes there's bugs I'd would rather have a priority over the fixes that happen; but that's just where I rate importance of things, not an absence of fixes.
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
Dragons Breath
- Currently Its MC50 with 2d6+20. My max hit with this is around 32k Purple damage. Non purple this is around 15-20k. This is with 1220 Fire spell power, 63% crit rate and 95 Spell crit modifer as a sorcerer. Nerfing this by the changes will make it be off my rotation. Its not worth it. Other spells do similar dmg.
* recommend an actual rebalancing of damage. Its pretty simple I've seen the answers various times.
1d6+28 For single target
1d6+7 (MCL20) for multi target Each Tree should have a T5 that upgrades it to 1d6+10 (MCL25) (acid well does 1d6+18 MCL20)

Its annoying that something has to be totally destroyed to balance it. Its been this way for years, So many folks have used it, the newer folks will not be able too.
This right here summaries the real problem. As a sorcerer with 1220 fire spell power he will simply drop dragon breath from his rotation.

As a warlock, who has never had quadruple digit spell power and who has no other spells in my rotation, I will just be weak. I can't give up dragon breath because it is the only spell I have. You are crippling my character while leaving the people you are targeting basically unaffected. The powerful classes will just drop dragon breath from their rotation, while the weaker classes that rely on their ED to be able to function in epic content will just be incredibly weak (as if we were not already).

The 33% reduction in power in R7 and above content was bad enough, but at least I could play R6 and below and still be okay. This will hurt in all content of all difficulty levels.
 

DeathTitan

Well-known member
The devs fix stuff constantly. Almost every update for ages has had at least one bug I've personally reported fixed (if not multiple). Depending on the nature of the bug and the quality of the bug report information, things tend to get fixed. Sometimes not at the rate I'd prefer and sometimes there's bugs I'd would rather have a priority over the fixes that happen; but that's just where I rate importance of things, not an absence of fixes.
Then why the game still freeze from time to time while I'm playing during hardcore season? And I do have to restart the game client (while the mobs on hardcore are still beating me while I relog the game).

Why when I restart the cliente from time to time the chat is not available for many minutes? They said they fixed it but the issue is still there?

Why they didn't fix energy vortex issue mentioned by me above? It has been released years ago.

Why they didn't fix Primal Avatar Thunder Snow sla? I mean, have they ever tested it before releasing it years ago? It should "Send forth a wide wave of freezing hail", let me see the ******* wide wave of freezing hail ahahahahahah :D

At R10 difficulty the only reliable thing in this epic destiny system is Dragon Breath because the things mentioned above (and many other things) are bugged and the developers do not fix them.

I was recently considering to give a shot at "Holy Fireball: SLA" in Exalted Angel destiny tree but I just read that they will nerf it too: I mean, what the hell, it's a tier 5 epic destiny sla, what's the need of nerfing it? I never heard people telling that it's overpowered (fire element is also resisted a lot).

The truth is that the developers MAYBE fix something that has been released from a few days, otherwise they care only about the next update development (new packs, new expansions etcetera) and they forget about older stuff: this is not the way to maintain a game.

Also the only thing that the developers fix is the ones like "now you can buy stuff from the hardcore vendor": I mean they have to fix stuff like that, otherwise what's the point of an hardcore season if you can't claim stuff when reaching the reward point?!?
 
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DeathTitan

Well-known member
Thunder Snow: SP: 20 CD: 20 Sends forth a wide wave of freezing hail before you with a narrow blast of lightning at its center directly in front of the caster. The hail deals 1d6+4 cold damage per character level. The bolt of lightning strikes for 1d6+4 per character level.

From now on Primal Avatar will have a simple sla whose "WIDE WAVE OF FREEZING HAIL" deals more damage (1d6+4) than the dragon breath at 1d6+3 (and the primal avatar sla has also a lightning bolt on top of it).

Oh wait... anyone sees the wide wave of freezing hail?
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
Thunder Snow: SP: 20 CD: 20 Sends forth a wide wave of freezing hail before you with a narrow blast of lightning at its center directly in front of the caster. The hail deals 1d6+4 cold damage per character level. The bolt of lightning strikes for 1d6+4 per character level.

From now on Primal Avatar will have a simple sla whose "WIDE WAVE OF FREEZING HAIL" deals more damage (1d6+4) than the dragon breath at 1d6+3

Oh wait... anyone sees the wide wave of freezing hail?
good job researching
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Then why the game still freeze from time to time while I'm playing during hardcore season? And I do have to restart the game client (while the mobs on hardcore are still beating me while I relog the game).

Why when I restart the cliente from time to time the chat is not available for many minutes? They said they fixed it but the issue is still there?

Why they didn't fix energy vortex issue mentioned by me above? It has been released years ago.
The absence of fixes you want doesn't mean they're not doing constant fixes. I complain about lag all the time, but I also don't think they're easy fixes.

As for energy vortex? Who knows. I don't ever run it to know what's all wrong with it. My advice, make a detailed report about it and toss it up here and see what happens. Chain Heal in EA was problematic since EA launched and based off providing videos of the issues in this thread, there was work done on it for lam2.
 

DeathTitan

Well-known member
The absence of fixes you want doesn't mean they're not doing constant fixes. I complain about lag all the time, but I also don't think they're easy fixes.

As for energy vortex? Who knows. I don't ever run it to know what's all wrong with it. My advice, make a detailed report about it and toss it up here and see what happens. Chain Heal in EA was problematic since EA launched and based off providing videos of the issues in this thread, there was work done on it for lam2.
I did bug reports officially in the past to know that they are useless and they will not be considered.

I listed above a few issues that I reported in the past and they have never been fixed "in the past years": fixing them would make me consider other builds, but because then don't then I was stuck with "dragon breath".

So in the next release we will have an unusable dragon breath (don't tell me that with those numbers dragon breath will be any good at r10 difficulty) and alternatives like "energy vortex" and "thunder snow" are still unusable.

In the "Epic Destiny pass" they didn't mention at all the fix of basic things like "energy vortex" and "thunder snow": that demonstrates that whoever wrote this lamannia forum thread does not know this game at all.

Did they fix lag? Absolutely not, every time we do skeleton raid at r1 difficulty, at end boss fight all almost freeze.

You can repeat how much you want that they do fixes, but if the game is barely playable I do not consider the currente developers job a good job.
 

Ellisaria

Well-known member
I did bug reports officially in the past to know that they are useless and they will not be considered.

I listed above a few issues that I reported in the past and they have never been fixed "in the past years": fixing them would make me consider other builds, but because then don't then I was stuck with "dragon breath".

So in the next release we will have an unusable dragon breath (don't tell me that with those numbers dragon breath will be any good at r10 difficulty) and alternatives like "energy vortex" and "thunder snow" are still unusable.

In the "Epic Destiny pass" they didn't mention at all the fix of basic things like "energy vortex" and "thunder snow": that demonstrates that whoever wrote this lamannia forum thread does not know this game at all.

Did they fix lag? Absolutely not, every time we do skeleton raid at r1 difficulty, at end boss fight all almost freeze.

You can repeat how much you want that they do fixes, but if the game is barely playable I do not consider the currente developers job a good job.
Not sure when you last did a bug report, but I think Tonquin has been making a lot of effort with making bug reporting more direct to them in this thread. I've seen a lot of things get fixed and slated for upcoming patches and the more specifics/details you can give the better. It's not tackling the "big issues" like lag but there is effort there. (Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE it if the SSG team would focus on hardware, infrastructure, and storage upgrades instead of one-off quests and smaller bug fixes, particularly when not prepping an expansion. All I know is that the team is small, and I'm not in the office seeing how the whole thing runs, so I have no idea what they realistically can and can't do! It would be nice though.)
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
In the "Epic Destiny pass" they didn't mention at all the fix of basic things like "energy vortex" and "thunder snow": that demonstrates that whoever wrote this lamannia forum thread does not know this game at all.
They haven't even mentioned upgrading those pathetic tier 6 draconic wings, and it's a non-damage skill...

As a caster that doesn't have byapss I'm also hoping to see some love in the EDs to extensive use of my spellbook. But oh no, I have to activate my mantles with one or two elements and receive a proc of just one element in return. okay. What a balance.
 
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Lazuli

Well-known member
Not sure when you last did a bug report, but I think Tonquin has been making a lot of effort with making bug reporting more direct to them in this thread. I've seen a lot of things get fixed and slated for upcoming patches and the more specifics/details you can give the better. It's not tackling the "big issues" like lag but there is effort there. (Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE it if the SSG team would focus on hardware, infrastructure, and storage upgrades instead of one-off quests and smaller bug fixes, particularly when not prepping an expansion. All I know is that the team is small, and I'm not in the office seeing how the whole thing runs, so I have no idea what they realistically can and can't do! It would be nice though.)
Tonquin does a very good job with bugs, but he is one person. Does the priority really need to be nerf first? Maybe they should fix first to give alternatives.

And all I know is that shiradi is still useless for caster. That's what they call "balance", eliminating options. It is not the same definition that I have.
 

Ellisaria

Well-known member
And all I know is that shiradi is still useless for caster.
One of my initial hopes when they announced the ED pass + Myth Drannor was that caster elements were going to be excised from Shiradi, Shiradi was going to be fully a ranged tree (with some dang threat reduction and imbue dice replacing slots occupied by dc's or other caster specific picks) and a new destiny tree coming with the expac like how machrotechnic came out with Vecna. That tree would be the "warlock" tree with generalist caster support with multiselector options and force focuses. One can only dream.
Btw if anyone is looking for an idea's guy, I know a guy. (I'm the guy)
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
And all I know is that shiradi is still useless for caster. That's what they call "balance", eliminating options. It is not the same definition that I have.
We've got epic abilities that scale off the best stat (INT/WIS/CHA, etc.). The mantle stuff in sharidi scales off 200% Ranged Power if from a Ranged attack, or 100% XYZ spellpower if from a spell; this means ranged procs all scale nicely while caster procs are all over the place for damage. Imagine if the spellpower version used your best spellpower for it instead of specific spellpowers.
 

Sorccadin

Member
The absence of fixes you want doesn't mean they're not doing constant fixes. I complain about lag all the time, but I also don't think they're easy fixes.

As for energy vortex? Who knows. I don't ever run it to know what's all wrong with it. My advice, make a detailed report about it and toss it up here and see what happens. Chain Heal in EA was problematic since EA launched and based off providing videos of the issues in this thread, there was work done on it for lam2.
The Energy Vortex is designed to serve as the AOE DPS version of Dragon Breath (DB). However, it seems to encounter issues as it fails to function unless a specific enemy is hard-targeted. In such cases, it deals DB-level damage to the target, complete with a saving throw, regardless of the distance. Essentially, it operates as an infinite-range single-target DB and then triggers the actual vortex as advertised.

However, when no specific enemy is hard-targeted, the Energy Vortex becomes non-functional. Despite going through the animation, it fails to inflict any damage or summon the vortex. While it remains usable in specialized builds for those aware of the workaround, the process is cumbersome compared to other Burst-type AOE abilities, such as negative energy burst.
 

DeathTitan

Well-known member
We've got epic abilities that scale off the best stat (INT/WIS/CHA, etc.). The mantle stuff in sharidi scales off 200% Ranged Power if from a Ranged attack, or 100% XYZ spellpower if from a spell; this means ranged procs all scale nicely while caster procs are all over the place for damage. Imagine if the spellpower version used your best spellpower for it instead of specific spellpowers.
Many of your mentioned "EPIC abilities" are good only in gianthold wilderness area when some players create youtube videos to show how a new epic destiny works :-D

It's true that they are removing all high reaper options for a caster to dps.

If I wanted to play a single target dps I would play an archer instead of a caster that should have more area of effect options instead of all these **** single target epic strikes here and there that all share the same cooldown.

And now I read a forum thread titled "Update 66 Preview 1: AOE Ranged Attacks", so soon archers will deal more AOE damage than casters too :-D

I see in your forum signature "r10 push raider" but I'm wondering if you ever played a caster in your life and if you can show us all any R10 solo quest video of yours playing a caster (if you have the knowledge of how to make videos and if you don't find the excuse of "quests should not be meant to be played solo at R10 difficulty", because by playing slowly and after several attempts a good build should be able to do that).
 
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DeathTitan

Well-known member
The Energy Vortex is designed to serve as the AOE DPS version of Dragon Breath (DB). However, it seems to encounter issues as it fails to function unless a specific enemy is hard-targeted. In such cases, it deals DB-level damage to the target, complete with a saving throw, regardless of the distance. Essentially, it operates as an infinite-range single-target DB and then triggers the actual vortex as advertised.

However, when no specific enemy is hard-targeted, the Energy Vortex becomes non-functional. Despite going through the animation, it fails to inflict any damage or summon the vortex. While it remains usable in specialized builds for those aware of the workaround, the process is cumbersome compared to other Burst-type AOE abilities, such as negative energy burst.
very interesting, thanks for sharing.
So the hard-targeted enemy doesn't have to be near you when you cast it?
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
We've got epic abilities that scale off the best stat (INT/WIS/CHA, etc.). The mantle stuff in sharidi scales off 200% Ranged Power if from a Ranged attack, or 100% XYZ spellpower if from a spell; this means ranged procs all scale nicely while caster procs are all over the place for damage. Imagine if the spellpower version used your best spellpower for it instead of specific spellpowers.
I am not talking about the shiradi as an ED specialist. In fact, I don't even consider the shiradi an ED for caster. Shiradi proc rate is pathetic, and outside the mantle there is nothing useful. It's a total waste of APs.

The dev who thought that casters cast faster than xbows shoot and that's why they should nerf the proc frequency to half must have smoked some great weed that day.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
I see in your forum signature "r10 push raider" but I'm wondering if you ever played a caster in your life and if you can show us all any R10 solo quest video of yours playing a caster (if you have the knowledge of how to make videos and if you don't find the excuse of "quests should not be meant to be played solo at R10 difficulty", because by playing slowly and after several attempts a good build should be able to do that).
I've solo'd r10's on my low damage utility arti for giggles. But I don't generally care to solo r10's; nor do I care if anyone else can. I like playing with friends. If your build isn't fun to play anymore then I feel for you; I also don't think I've made a single comment about the nerf to DB's damage in this entire thread (I've made a ton about EA as I play healers a lot and about improving other abilities/trees). And yeah, I've played plenty of casters over the years.
 
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