What is the plan for players with more than 156 reaper points?

Br4d

Well-known member
I have seen a large amount of players leave this game due to the "nothing more to do to better my toon". Increasing the reaper cap to say 300 Reaper points (approx. 90 million RxP) would at least give them something to do. Even if the points above 156 were cosmetics and a few HP/ RP/MP etc etc, it would give them a never ending carrot to chase.

For example:

2HP/ Point : (inside reaper, only added when player is capped level .....increased to 34/35 when level cap goes up to ensure these added points only effect end game)

1 AC/ 1 RP/ 1 MP/ 2 USP at intervals like 160, 170, 180 etc


At 160 Reaper point (Approx 1.35 million RxP above 156)

8 HP
1 AC/ 1 RP/ 1 MP/ 2 USP


At 180 Reaper point (Approx 8 million RxP above 156)

48 HP
3 AC/ 3 RP/ 3 MP/ 6 USP


At 200 Reaper point (Approx 15 million RxP above 156)

88 HP
5 AC/ 5 RP/ 5 MP/ 10 USP
COSMETIC

Now, I know there will be people saying "Those people do not need anymore power" or "this divides up the player base from those that have and those that don't".......but it might keep those players actually playing DDO.

IMO, we need to keep those people still playing the game at the same time getting new players to join the game (both are needed to keep DDO alive).

This is what I don't understand. If somebody has the time to grind out 156 reaper points and wants another time sink why not make an alt and grind out those points and the past lives also?

I think the TR/Reaper system is much harder for people who just don't have the time to get one character to a reasonable state against the meta. That's where hopeless begins to sink in.

People who have the time/money to do the grind really are not constrained at all by the system. They can just start over on another character which is the definition of the DDO meta at this point.
 

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
Meh reapers, back in my day we ran elite at lowest possible character level. Your reward was surviving.

Now get off my lawn.
 

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
I think the TR/Reaper system is much harder for people who just don't have the time to get one character to a reasonable state against the meta. That's where hopeless begins to sink in.

I may be in the minority here but I simple reject the DDO meta. I play and have fun. If I get to level cap in a few days, a week, a month, it does not matter.

Once I start thinking I have to spend an unreasonable amount of time and/or money or feel stressed because I haven't maxed out something that is when I need to quit.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
I may be in the minority here but I simple reject the DDO meta. I play and have fun. If I get to level cap in a few days, a week, a month, it does not matter.

Once I start thinking I have to spend an unreasonable amount of time and/or money or feel stressed because I haven't maxed out something that is when I need to quit.

I've quit DDO at least 3 times because the meta was stressing me out. I realized at some point that quitting was not necessary, just quitting spending.
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
I realized at some point that quitting was not necessary, just quitting spending.
True. Quitting the meta and spending helps a lot to keep the game just a game.
Playing since 2011, always with big hiatus when the game starts to become to much of chore than relaxing play sessions.

The Epic cap raise to 26 and the Reaper introduction were the biggest hiatus I had. Too much grind at the time to less content avaliabe, knowadays content has met the demand, so it is kind fun.
 

Chacka

Well-known member
This is what I don't understand. If somebody has the time to grind out 156 reaper points and wants another time sink why not make an alt and grind out those points and the past lives also?

I think the TR/Reaper system is much harder for people who just don't have the time to get one character to a reasonable state against the meta. That's where hopeless begins to sink in.

People who have the time/money to do the grind really are not constrained at all by the system. They can just start over on another character which is the definition of the DDO meta at this point.
Of course, I can only speak for myself and can only assume that other players see it the same way, which is obviously not absurd from my point of view.

I have absolutely no desire to invest months, and even years, in creating another character just to maybe one day reach the same point where my current so-called main character is already at the moment.
And yes, of course, there are always a few players who are motivated enough to do that, but I hardly believe that this is the norm.

Furthermore, it becomes even worse when you expect others to play with a character as if they've never played DDO before. Do you genuinely think this is motivating if YOU were in that situation?

Of course, it's always easy to expect someone else to do something you would never consider doing yourself.

Once again, I believe SSG should either introduce a hard cap at 156 reaper APs or provide additional rewards for players who exceed this limit. The current situation is unsatisfactory.

I would even be okay with them removing 41 APs from my so-called main character if I knew that there would never be more than 156 APs available to spend in the enhancement trees.

To offer players a reasonable sense of progression beyond acquiring all past lives and 156 reaper APs, I would suggest the option to create alts with equal progression (account/server-based progression) or explore another new progression system, such as legendary past lives.
 

ACJ97F

Well-known member
There doesn't need to be anything past 156 RP, there are other things available to do, like getting busy grinding one of the many, many,
hamster-wheels they have added to the game to fund the store. You're done? Awesome, we need a class that you're not currently playing.
Now you have something to do.

Disclaimer: 7% of that was sarcasm.
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
there are always a few players who are motivated enough to do that, but I hardly believe that this is the norm.
Look, when my friends and I (we were a group of eight) started playing DDO in 2011 we are WoW/Diablo and D&D tabletop players and loved the game at first sight. We loved have multiple characters in different archetypes do cicle Raids (Shroud, VoN, Sands, Reavers and ToD).

Each one of us had at least Melee-DPS, Healer, Trapper and CC Caster to rotate. It was fun to run multiple characters, knowadays, it is a PITA and a chore have just ONE ready to Endgame Raid.

Personally, I applaude those whom had reached a Full Triple Heroic/Racials/Epic completionist, ALL Iconic and 156 Reaper character. It is a lot of time and effort.
 
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Mand O'Lin

Singer of Songs Drinker of Drinks
Look, when my friends and I (we where a group of eight) started playing DDO in 2011 we are WoW/Diablo and D&D tabletop players and loved the game at first sight. We loved have multiple characters in different archetypes do cicle Raids (Shroud, VoN, Sands, Reavers and ToD).

Each one of us had at least Melee-DPS, Healer, Trapper and CC Caster to rotate. It was fun to run multiple characters, knowadays, it is a PITA and a chore have just ONE ready to Endgame Raid.

Personally, I applaude those whom had reached a Full Triple Heroic/Racials/Epic completionist, ALL Iconic and 156 Reaper character. It is a lot of time and effort.
It still is taking time! Just don't tell my wife how much time... or money!
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
This is what I don't understand. If somebody has the time to grind out 156 reaper points and wants another time sink why not make an alt and grind out those points and the past lives also?

I think the TR/Reaper system is much harder for people who just don't have the time to get one character to a reasonable state against the meta. That's where hopeless begins to sink in.

People who have the time/money to do the grind really are not constrained at all by the system. They can just start over on another character which is the definition of the DDO meta at this point.
Alts are, and always have been, a waste of time in any game. I am one person in real life, without multiple personalities, and I am one person in a video game. I play my character until it is capped, and then I leave the game never to return. I am in DDO primarily because it has the best system of near infinite advancement. Most games either leave you capped when you get to the max level (and thus there is no reason to play other than to get gear, which is silly because whatever gear you earn will eventually be thrown away when you replace it with better gear, so better to quit before you grind for gear) or they allow advancement only at the level cap, which means you are grinding 10% of the content as you advance. The past life system allows us to play all of the content each life so the game is significantly less repetitive than most.

That said, part of good character management is to see how much advancement is available and pace yourself accordingly. I, for example, run every quest once each life without an exp potions to make it faster. The goal is to advance, but never run out of content. As long as they keep adding more past lives faster than I run out of the current ones, the game can go on forever. The main problem with the people with all past lives and 156 reaper points is they often cut every corner possible to speed through the process and thus run out of advancement too quickly. That is unfortunate, but it is a preventable problem that we can all see coming. When someone says, "Let's run this quest chain that is bad exp." The correct answer is, "Sure, why not" rather than "I have to drop now because I only do quests that are maximally efficient because I need to get through all the lives and reaper points so I can get on the forums to complain that there is nothing to do."
 

Br4d

Well-known member
Alts are a critical part of endgame in almost all other MMO's. They're the characters you level when no raid or high level instance is available to run and they provide the break from your main character in endgame content when you'd rather play another role because you're tired of (healing/tanking/DPS) at the moment.

DDO is almost unique in providing most players the opportunity to just play one character over and over again and in essentially deprioritizing actual endgame play in the process.

As the years have gone by DDO has shaped it's player base and watched that player base decline in the process. It's almost as if SSG has made the perfect the enemy of the practical as they have followed this unwavering pathway to impossible for most of the player base.
 

Hobgoblin

Grumpy Old man
joker-do-i.gif
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
DDO is almost unique in providing most players the opportunity to just play one character over and over again and in essentially deprioritizing actual endgame play in the process.
True! So much true!

When I began to play DDO I loved have one character to play with my friends, one to experiment things/builds, one to play downtime solo and one to fill need gaps on our raid weekend parties. All third lifers, all fully equiped... now ALL bank mules. Just the soloist is running because the convoluted TR hamster wheel.
 

Col Kurtz

Well-known member
You raced to 156, cool for you. You knew that was the cap. Then you raced for even more still knowing that 156 was the cap, which was your own choice. You could have played a different character instead but decided not to.

I very much dont think they should add more power beyond 156. A cap is a good thing. Adding a textual title for every 50 rp would be fine though and cheap to implement.
totally

Players who maxed out past lives and reaper points deserve some sort of recognition from the game...maybe a special cosmetic... but, they clearly have enough time on their hands to make an alt and contribute to pUGs with a different class that they know from their vast experience would be appreciated.

I am on the fence though with players that got there ... no way to do it without zerging and/or buying otto boxes. If you truly love this game why would you rush to the end without enjoying the ride? But that's a little different subject;)

>I've met some really helpful players in hardcore that could easily pop to 20 and work solely on reaper points... but they instead choose to post lower lvl lfms to educate and help players get better. This is so cool, and helps them and the community get better players to run with in the future. If these maxed out reaper players don't want to help in this way-by posting LFM's that help the newbs and wanna b's in the community increase their knowledge, maybe they don't love this game at all.

This '' I'm maxed out, what's in it for me '' attitude is a little obtuse. DDO will make more content for them..or the whales will beach themselves and let it die because they never wanted to help the little babies in their pod survive.
 

Mand O'Lin

Singer of Songs Drinker of Drinks
totally

Players who maxed out past lives and reaper points deserve some sort of recognition from the game...maybe a special cosmetic... but, they clearly have enough time on their hands to make an alt and contribute to pUGs with a different class that they know from their vast experience would be appreciated.

I am on the fence though with players that got there ... no way to do it without zerging and/or buying otto boxes. If you truly love this game why would you rush to the end without enjoying the ride? But that's a little different subject;)

>I've met some really helpful players in hardcore that could easily pop to 20 and work solely on reaper points... but they instead choose to post lower lvl lfms to educate and help players get better. This is so cool, and helps them and the community get better players to run with in the future. If these maxed out reaper players don't want to help in this way-by posting LFM's that help the newbs and wanna b's in the community increase their knowledge, maybe they don't love this game at all.

This '' I'm maxed out, what's in it for me '' attitude is a little obtuse. DDO will make more content for them..or the whales will beach themselves and let it die because they never wanted to help the little babies in their pod survive.
I would be happy with something akin to the "wings" you receive when you TR.

Have some sort of special visual when you are a racial completionist. Another visual with heroic (triple) completionist. Another with Iconic (triple) completionist. Yet another with Epic (triple) completionist. and Finally another visual with 156 Reaper points.

With some forethought, this can end up being really awesome. Each visual can complement each other resulting in a final complete visual when you have everything. Think five pointed star with each completion represented as one of the points... but nothing as mundane as that.
 

Altra

Well-known member

I would be happy with something akin to the "wings" you receive when you TR.

Have some sort of special visual when you are a racial completionist. Another visual with heroic (triple) completionist. Another with Iconic (triple) completionist. Yet another with Epic (triple) completionist. and Finally another visual with 156 Reaper points.

With some forethought, this can end up being really awesome. Each visual can complement each other resulting in a final complete visual when you have everything. Think five pointed star with each completion represented as one of the points... but nothing as mundane as that.
I really like this idea.
Recognition, without "I'm a GOD!" power creep.
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
Alts are a critical part of endgame in almost all other MMO's. They're the characters you level when no raid or high level instance is available to run and they provide the break from your main character in endgame content when you'd rather play another role because you're tired of (healing/tanking/DPS) at the moment.

DDO is almost unique in providing most players the opportunity to just play one character over and over again and in essentially deprioritizing actual endgame play in the process.

As the years have gone by DDO has shaped it's player base and watched that player base decline in the process. It's almost as if SSG has made the perfect the enemy of the practical as they have followed this unwavering pathway to impossible for most of the player base.
"End game" was always a stupid idea. It meant the game was over and you were just finding a way to kill time until the next expansion. Unfortunately, some players were stupid enough to think "end game" meant it was the primary purpose of the game, and so we got games that rushed through the real game (i.e. character development through leveling) so people could sit at the cap running the same few raids endlessly. This game finally got it right. Character development is the real game. Sitting at a level cap to run the same raids just so you can get loot you will throw away with the next level cap increase is a waste of time. The DDO community is made up of people that recognize that. We don't need an alt because none of our characters need to be sitting at the level cap running a few raids every 3 days.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
End game provided a static measure of your character's abilities and a goal for your alts.

It was a critical part of the MMO paradigm and the leveling processing after a new expansion released, where all the end game gear and abilities went out the window, was what provided a continuing incentive to play the game as well as a significant catchup threshold for new players.

I get that you really prefer the endless treadmill that DDO provides but it is an emptier treadmill than the traditional MMO treadmill because it doesn't give good reference points at endgame and it provides zero catchup ability at any point to later-joining players.

As an example of not having good reference points at endgame - when was the last time a group you were in wiped on new content more than once?

Endgame is just a showcase here and it is intentionally made so.
 

Lagin

Well-known member
A new TR called, "Reaper Reincarnation". Grants the user a 25% discount on Sibery's Resurection Cakes, :cool:
 
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