Time to find something else to do.. oh wait I already have other things to do. could even go check out bg3 at least that studio cares about their customers and what they want. I've never seen a company thumb their nose at their customers like these guys. with all the pushback their response was "were doing what we want anyway" so are we
Downtime Notice: Wednesday, February 28th 9:00 AM - 1:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT)
- Thread starter Cordovan
- Start date
The Narc
Well-known member
Damn i shouldnt have posted about the devs sock accounts placing cleanser cards on the astral shard auction house.
I'll add this into the list of in-game features that I ignore & pretend don't even exist. It really sucks for those who like using this tree & are left holding the bag, though.
This highlights the core problem with the devs attitudes towards players in general.
To boil it down, the devs wrote buggy code, then *assumed* anyone with a double-cursed item had to have done it intentionally and chose this form of "punishment".
They did this in spite of years of history indicating any new system they release would most likely have some initial bugs that players would stumble upon purely by accident.
To put it another way, if the devs thought they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that the only way to double-curse an item was to intentionally exploit a bug using a scenario that wouldn't/couldn't occur under any normal circumstances, the professional response would have been to simply ban the exploiters. That's the standing policy, right?
If they weren't 100% sure, the appropriate and professional solution would have been to fix the bug, then systematically remove the additional curses from any existing items (or put in an NPC that would let you remove them item by item, etc.) and let everyone go on their merry way.
Instead, they chose this option, which just appears vindictive and full of hubris.
Yet, some people still wonder why there's not a better relationship between the playerbase and the devs. Hostility and toxicity is a two-way street.
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The Narc
Well-known member
To be clear i never suggested every person with items with multiple curses should be banned or have things deleted, injust suggested those with a high count of these items should be deeply investigate in their transaction logs so that we could catch the true abusers. These abusers should be punished with the heaviest form of a hammer as possible, duping destroys the entire infrastructure of DDO, there should be no leniency.
That's the rub though.No. This is an approach, but it's using a catch all and (possibly) the belief that all players with Multi-Curse items are exploiters (OK some are, like myself, but I had good reason to make mine just now).
I have proof that shows that it is possible for an innocuous action (common in Day to Day DDO activity) to inadvertently cause a Multi-Curse to happen without ever intending it. But it would be impossible (as far as I can see) to tell who truly is innocent and who is not. But given that this approach taken by the Devs would condemn the Innocent along with the Guilty, this approach taken by the Devs is too harsh and largely unreasonable.
So I hope the Devs can consider the some leeway with what I have sent to Cordovan for review in a PM, or at least some similar alternatives.
J1NG
You shouldn't have been the one that had to do the work to prove this.
The devs should have done the work. They could EASILY have done exactly what you did and asked the community for information and help testing it. They didn't. Therein lies the problem.
Instead, they just assumed everyone was guilty and ran with it. Thus, you had to devote your own time to solicit info and feedback from the community and do the testing to prove otherwise.
It just shows the difference attitude can make. The devs frequently appear hostile towards the community. You frequently appear optimistic and helpful.
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Thank you .. ive been saying this forever.
Ahpuch
Well-known member
Yep. They could have easily done that. But that assumes that they knew about it. Jing did it last night because thats when he first found out. Probably SSG found out about it when they came in this AM. Did anyone who pulled something out the bank and found it double cursed bug report it or PM Cordo or Tonquin?
That's as kind as I can be to SSG though. Because the coding gymnastics that could cause this bug make one really wonder how they are handling their bank. That kind of code should be unit tested to death to prevent this kind of bizarre behaviour and it seems that SSG does not believe in that.
This. Part of the issue is this attitude and the attitude of keeping things secret. There are no secrets. Just other locations where info is shared. SSG has fundamental flaws in their ideas of customer relationships.
Sophie The Cat Burglar
Exotic Items Recovery Specialist
Wait! Stop EVERYTHING!
How do I turn my hires into potted house plants?
How do I turn my hires into potted house plants?
Mickeymouse
Well-known member
why not program it so you can now have 2 curses on your item, wouldn´t that solve alot of anger and de-population issues?
That's the key.
Based on the long, long history of "halo" bugs with pretty much any new system they release, their default assumption should not ever be, "Our code was perfect and everyone this happened to intentionally exploited".
Starting with the opposite assumption and working their way back would be a much better look.
J1NG
I can do things others can't...
That is correct; I only read up about it last night when someone posted about it. As I was busy making Multi-Curse items to grab the Overburdened Curse (In case it was the same as the Level Item Over Level slow debuff) overnight, I also tried to gather as much information as possible to get evidence that it could be accidental and that players innocent of the crime could be implicated by a catch all approach. (But of course, only if that was true, and I was able to get that information/evidence)
Luckily the right information came through and with the knowledge I already had about certain systems in place, including how the Curse system works, I figured out and recorded a few videos that shows how it is possible that normal actions whilst using the Curse system, can totally break (bug) it (to cause a Multi-Curse), and the fault is on SSGs side, not the player.
Initial response was... Suffice it to say. Not ideal. I pursued it further, explaining it in a little more detail in case SSG thought I was proposing a different approach only (and not showing that the fault is with their systems), querying if another approach is out of the question, and that's as far as I got so far (as I know that it has to go through a chain up).
Coincidentally (I can not claim my efforts were the cause) on the DDO Discord, a Dev mentioned that the Overburdened Curse was pulled (temporarily) whilst they work out some technical issues with it.
I'm hoping that's a sign that they saw that whilst yes, they will be able to punish all players that did exploit (using the known method described elsewhere), but because (maybe?) they didn't know about this other method, they have taken a different approach. (I was there for Mabar Ban where it was indiscriminate and got so many false positives from DDO's systems)
Fingers crossed a better approach happens. I could be wrong though, but let's hope for the best.
J1NG
Mindos
CHAOTIC EVIL
Things have definitely gone south.Do I feel a pole coming on..?
Mindos
CHAOTIC EVIL
It's psychology based! They have to *want* to change, at least according to the release notes.
Sophie The Cat Burglar
Exotic Items Recovery Specialist
Darn! Darn. Double Darn. Shoot. Darn. Shoot. Fiddlesticks! *sigh* And here I thought I was getting some free rhododendrons.
Cordovan
Community Manager
I saw your report but so far I have not been able to reproduce this. Anyone else experiencing this issue? When you say "open the main menu and click on main menu" do you mean, "From inside of the game world I am hitting escape to call up the Main Menu, at which point the game client is crashing before I am able to make a selection."?
Volarr
Well-known member
After posting i figured it out so deleted my original reply. In game if i double right clicked on the main menu (DDO icon bottom left) the game closed. If i single clicked on the main menu the menu opened. once opened if I double right click on the main menu (icon below the DDO Store) the game closes. When i single right click it opens the menu to the log out option. So the double click is auto closing the game and with a single right click it working.