Kali's Barbarian Ravager THF CON Melee DPS build

Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Why the 2 weapon focus feats? Personally I'd ditch one & throw sap in there, it's CC will get broken with the next attack but it's a great way to interrupt attack chains, special attacks & spellcasting plus it'll even work in reaper since it doesn't have a save allowed, just extra duration (rarely relevant unless you're moving through a group & leave them behind) if the attack counts as a sneak attack.
Hi Fuzzy, and thanks for your input.
It's for the Melee Power, but the slashing one for To-hit as well.

Sap is not something I had considered, because I did not have a particularly good experience with in the past. But that was a very long time ago, and the game was too easy and very fast-paced (and no reapers). The key issue, if I recall, was spellcasters just blasting stuff, and SAP just never being worth it.

I'd like more input from others on this, but it does seem to have some potential (especially vs reapers), so will certainly keep it in mind during my current review of the build.

Really appreciate the suggestion! :)
 
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Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Thanks i missed you had slotted accuracy on the fang slot. I still put your to hit at around 110 ish fully buffed?

edit: ins str is already covered by cape of the roc
Ops, that's right (ref ins STR). And it also has the quality STR clickly (but that's not sustained throughout the full quest).

And 110 ish to-hit fully buffed, outside of reaper, sounds just about right. Yep, this could be higher for sure, but:
- one consideration here is that I am creating/sharing 'core builds', and numbers are what a first-lifer/min past lives character has, and what they can achieve with gear (and the gear I include are just suggestions, mostly for inspiration)
- insightful bonus: very annoying to fit in gear sets, especially considering my personal restrictions (having gear sets shareable by alts)
- trance: there aren't enough Action Points -> either drop Vistani and go Harper, or keep Vistani and no trance
edit: Harper does NOT give to-hit, so the scenario is even worse, as other universal trees have trances in T3
- multiclass to get a cheap T1 trance (e.g. FvS): not an option I am willing to take, as I like Visage and I feel the ability to AoE insta-kill does partially offset other weaknesses

Let's say we fit insightful bonus: is it really that game-breaking to do without? will it really offset the sacrifices (i.e. potentially losing one of the major set bonuses) to squeeze that in?

Any suggestions? I don't particularly struggle with to-hit at all (or that many grazing hits). Perhaps that could be because:
... a common experience for melee characters is:
- to run towards a bunch of mobs that have been CCed and hit them
- to do your own CC and hit them


Are we by any chance comparing the numbers needed for max R10 solos with what is needed for regular reaper questing? Because I don't need R10 solo numbers: it is unlikely to ever be a goal of mine.
 
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Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Why the 2 weapon focus feats? Personally I'd ditch one & throw sap in there, it's CC will get broken with the next attack but it's a great way to interrupt attack chains, special attacks & spellcasting plus it'll even work in reaper since it doesn't have a save allowed, just extra duration (rarely relevant unless you're moving through a group & leave them behind) if the attack counts as a sneak attack.
I am aware they've made changes to SAP some time ago, but I haven't tested it since then.
Does it now work like the effect 'guarbreaking'? If so, it's potential alone to interrupt attack chains (AoE via strikethrough) is definitely worth considering. Guarbreaking is passive, I personally find it amazing. SAP seems to have a 15s cooldown... mmmm

On the back of my mind I keep seeing old flashes of fast paced groups and casters blasting everything (which is the current state of DDO once again) and SAP potentially still not being worth it. Mind elaborating on your personal experience with this Fuzzy, if you get a chance? Thanks in advance :)
 

Jack Jarvis Esquire

Well-known member
Couple of points from me if I may.

1. Whilst I understand the philosophy being adopted here as that of a basic guide, I have to say I find it less than useful. The build, to me, seems sub-optimal across a significant number of areas, and that significantly limits the potential for learning from it. By extension that limitation will naturally apply to others seeking guidance. I think the value in such an approach is far less than a more optimised approach geared for R10 and endgame, where, even if not attainable, valuable learning points can be gleaned. That said, I still applaud the work put in and recognise that some folks will take value from it, though there are also several options that IMO they may do well to avoid.

2. I'm really quite uncomfortable with the notion of anyone asking for a donation on here. It just doesn't sit right in the context of the Forum. I don't believe I've ever seen such before on here either. That's a purely personal reaction and I don't claim to speak for anyone else on the matter. I can see the request is made respectfully and without pressure, but accepting that principle opens the opportunity for other less scrupulous individuals to do similar. I'm not a "Terms Lawyer", and I won't be making any formal complaint in this instance, but I would request you consider editing the OP to remove this. I'm not comfortable with it, and I can understand that others might be triggered by it, though of course YMMV.

Sorry this is generally pretty negative feedback. Not generally something I like doing when someone has made such an obvious effort.
 

Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Couple of points from me if I may.

1. Whilst I understand the philosophy being adopted here as that of a basic guide, I have to say I find it less than useful. The build, to me, seems sub-optimal across a significant number of areas, and that significantly limits the potential for learning from it. By extension that limitation will naturally apply to others seeking guidance. I think the value in such an approach is far less than a more optimised approach geared for R10 and endgame, where, even if not attainable, valuable learning points can be gleaned. That said, I still applaud the work put in and recognise that some folks will take value from it, though there are also several options that IMO they may do well to avoid.

2. I'm really quite uncomfortable with the notion of anyone asking for a donation on here. It just doesn't sit right in the context of the Forum. I don't believe I've ever seen such before on here either. That's a purely personal reaction and I don't claim to speak for anyone else on the matter. I can see the request is made respectfully and without pressure, but accepting that principle opens the opportunity for other less scrupulous individuals to do similar. I'm not a "Terms Lawyer", and I won't be making any formal complaint in this instance, but I would request you consider editing the OP to remove this. I'm not comfortable with it, and I can understand that others might be triggered by it, though of course YMMV.

Sorry this is generally pretty negative feedback. Not generally something I like doing when someone has made such an obvious effort.
Hi Jack,

Thank you kindly. Your input, and the friendly manner in which you put it forward, are much appreciated. I hope I am able to reciprocate this in my response below:

Ref #1:
> I absolutely get this, and this is indeed one possible direction I could take. It is the direction most builds I come across normally take​
> It is not, however, what I plan to do at this point in time, even knowing this might mean my threads won't be as useful to some players as yourself: my sincere apologies for that​
> What I want to offer is what I believe is lacking at the moment: a more 'core/achievable' build for the large number of players who are nowhere near the massive achievement of becoming a completionist (not only massive, but potentially unachievable for the many who do not have the amount of free time it takes to become one)​
> I am reasonably confident that the more experienced players are likely to know which bonuses to add to these 'core' builds, to get to where they would like to go​
> If they don't, I am also am very comfortable with them retrieving info from other builds posted by the many players who put a lot of time and effort calculating R10 min/max numbers and sharing that with the community​
> I am always happy to try to help, and have been answering questions via the threads: nobody knows everything, but I have picked up quite a bit from my experience playing since 2006​
> Upon testing the waters with the first couple of builds I posted, I noticed a very warm and grateful reaction from a large number of players. My builds might be seen as niche by some, but I still firmly believe they have a place in our game​
> DDO is a learning curve: my builds aim to help with a part of that curve. I cannot sincerely see why it would limit the potential for learning. trying and testing, and adapting things to fit people's personal styles and desires is also a part of that curve​
> These builds are my personal project, and to be frankly honest, even if nobody likes them, they still give me a lot of personal pleasure and help me re-evaluate decisions as I post them in the forums (while helping others too): it's a win win from my perspective​
Ref #2:
> I am sorry that you feel this way, the intention is definitely not to make anyone uncomfortable​
> I see this practice in a very large number of online platforms. Though you say it has not been here before, I am fairly certain I have seen this before on people's signatures. Respectfully, I am personally not opposed to it taking place here​
> My sincere understanding is that this does not infringe the community rules. If you believe it does, I'd be grateful if you could kindly point me in the direction of where it says that, so I can read it and make sure I abide by it!​
> Less scrupulous individuals are everywhere already. I don't believe I will be able to prevent them from doing anything. Neither am I one of them: my advice comes from personal experience and those characters very much exist and get played in reaper 6-10 in Orien. This project is being done with the most genuine and helpful intentions​
> I cannot prevent you from reporting anyone who you believe is not acting appropriately or who is making you feel uncomfortable (even if not on purpose). Please don't hesitate to report anything you don't think is right​
> Should Cordovan/the moderators request me to remove the donation element, I will be very happy to oblige. I am not here to break rules​
> My builds are already fully available to everyone/anyone, and will continue to be so no matter what happens​

Your input on any aspects of the builds remains welcome, if you wish to do so, as it helps other players as well.

All the best! :)
 
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FuzzyDuck81

Well-known member
I am aware they've made changes to SAP some time ago, but I haven't tested it since then.
Does it now work like the effect 'guarbreaking'? If so, it's potential alone to interrupt attack chains (AoE via strikethrough) is definitely worth considering. Guarbreaking is passive, I personally find it amazing. SAP seems to have a 15s cooldown... mmmm

On the back of my mind I keep seeing old flashes of fast paced groups and casters blasting everything (which is the current state of DDO once again) and SAP potentially still not being worth it. Mind elaborating on your personal experience with this Fuzzy, if you get a chance? Thanks in advance :)
Yeah it basically works like guardbreaking, so it'll daze them for a few moments, there's a cooldown sure but it's a great one to throw out particularly if you're soloing, run through the group to the troubling caster at the back, hit sap on the way through & they'll usually stay CCed for long enough to get the job done. It's more situational than a drop of extra melee power, but most of my builds will have an occasional useful trick i can count on when i need it.
 

Spook

Well-known member
Visage DC doesnt need any help its a check against wisdom (not will) so lands even with a low DC
 

Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Visage DC doesnt need any help its a check against wisdom (not will) so lands even with a low DC
Hi Spook
Not quite sure what you mean here. Are you saying the description in-game is wrong, and it uses the full wisdom ability instead of Will saves?

Also, I personally feel it needs a lot of love. It is not scaling properly enough with the higher levels (a bit like Hurl to Hell wasn't either until quite recently):
Barbarian-Ravager-Visage-of-Terror.jpg


I have suggested this to the Devs quite recently, actually:
"- Being able to have some kind of extra bonus affecting the DCs would be awesome. Not sure what to suggest, but to synergise with Fury of The Wild, perhaps Trip? The only CON-based skill is Concentration, but that feels wrong on a raging barbarian lol!
- rather than CON modifier, maybe a certain % of the CON score?
- Full barbarian level (or possibly character level) could help too, instead of current 1/2 barb level"
 

Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Yes description is wrong a DC of 65 wouldnt land on anything
Interesting. Do you recall where you got that information from (ref wisdom, not will)? I'd be interested to have a look myself, just out of curiosity.

The DC calculations on many tooltips are broken (druid animal forms for sure!), and the text descriptions can also be incorrect on some occasions, so either scenario wouldn't surprise me.

Having said so, I don't find it reliable enough, even with a decent Constitution score: it feels like some love would help. I use it often, and definitely don't have the feeling that it lands all the time at all.
 

Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Epic Destinies updated to include an extra point gained from unlocking Machrotecnic.

N.B. At this point in time, my builds will NOT include the +1 Universal Tree (Morgrave) bonus.
Unfortunately, for those of us who actively play several alts, the
Ultimate Bundle offering bank space that is useful to one character only is, frankly, not an offer that adequately supports and incentivises playing with alts. Storage is still a massive issue (particularly for multi-alt players like me), that I sadly feel is still not being addressed in a fair and efficient manner. Since the Ultimate Bundle does not support my playstyle, I sadly chose not to support the game in an ultimate manner on this occasion.

Down the line, this tome will be acquired with DDO points (when I can combine double point sales + tome sale), and the builds that depend on universal trees will be the ones to receive suggestions on where to spend it first.
 
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Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
As several people have requested/suggested this (particularly in Discord), I am working towards sharing the DDOBuilder files for all my builds, since I use that program to do all my planning. Hopefully they will be valuable for using in conjunction with their respective forum threads.

The main thread for this build has been updated to include this, under the main title:
2. Kali's Barbarian Ravager melee DPS build
DDOBuilder file for this build.
You can find and download Maetrim's DDOBuilder here.

Do let me know is anyone has issues downloading the file from Goggle Drive (fingers crossed I got all the settings right!)

Very hopeful this will be a useful addition to my threads: thanks to everyone who suggested this.

N.B.
I arrange my DDOBuilder screen as per the image below (not this build in the image), as it helps me view the key aspects of my builds far more easily than opening and closing a bunch of windows. Just thought I'd share my experience, in case its useful:
Maetrim-s-DDOBuilder-sample.jpg

Maetrim's builder is really amazing, I highly recommend it!
 
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Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
Some minor updates to the build (both the main post and the DDOBuilder file have been adjusted):
> Boulder's Might included
> 2 less rage charges (FoTW)
> 1 less Tactical DCs (Leg Dreadnought)

> Some extra info included in the 'Extra damage' section

> New picture (I finally got one of those awesome sunsets at the right spot!)
Barbarian-Ravager-Avatar.jpg
 
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C1p3

Member
This is how Kali's Barbarian Ravager melee DPS build could look on your first life (28 pts build) with no tomes, no past lives, no bonus feats & no reaper points. Also, the Axe Training strikethrough bonuses now only apply to Dwarven Axes.
  • HP: 4251
  • Doublestrike: 60
  • Bonus Imbue Dice: 7D6
  • MP: 226
  • Strikethrough: 175 (better with a Dwarven Axe)
Barbarian Ravager Melee First Life.ddocp
 

Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
The main post has been edited to include buttons to click and expand info.
I used the spoiler tool, as it provided the effect I desired: there are no spoilers, though :)

The aim was to reduce potential visual overload, as well as the overall length of the main post. This creates potential to include more breakdowns.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from anyone who frequently visits my threads: do you prefer this layout?
I am working slowly towards doing the same for all other builds: hope this enhances everyone's experience when visiting and exploring!
 

Hobgoblin

Well-known member
I have my own fb horc barb - how would you build compared to this?

dont get me wrong i love rav t5 but so much useless stuff in the tree to get there
 

Kalibano

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!
I have my own fb horc barb - how would you build compared to this?

dont get me wrong i love rav t5 but so much useless stuff in the tree to get there
FB would be a very different story. Ravager, in sum, has some very desirable traits (and I'm not talking about 'meta', nor 'best R0 solo DPS', I don't care about any of that):
  • perhaps the key attraction here is the ability to AoE insta-kill (which is an indirect form of DPS, really)
  • To make the insta-kill work, you gotta invest in CON, which makes the next desirable aspect: survival
  • that's where Dwarf shines, because you can use CON to dmg, so there isn't a major DPS sacrifice
  • most effects used to boost STR very high also boost CON
  • Dwarven CON to dmg entails using GreatAxes only, which don't have the best crit profile
Off the top of my head, and in very broad terms, for FB:
  • no Visage, so STR rather than CON would seem the preferable choice
  • HOrc is a potentially strong racial choice
  • not restricted to GreatAxes, so I'd def use Falchions for their amazing crit profile
  • or you could go SWF with Handaxes (some bard splashed, for swashbuckler crit range), as the key attraction of FB T5 is +2 crit multiplier
  • I'd personally go for the style of combat that is most fun to you, if that's what you care about ofc :)
What's the approach you took to your FB?

On a side note, what did you think of the new layout of the build, using the buttons to show extra info?
 

Hobgoblin

Well-known member
FB would be a very different story. Ravager, in sum, has some very desirable traits (and I'm not talking about 'meta', nor 'best R0 solo DPS', I don't care about any of that):
  • I feel the key attraction here is the ability to AoE insta-kill (which is an indirect form of DPS, really)
  • To make the insta-kill work, you gotta invest in CON, which makes the next desirable aspect: survival
  • that's where Dwarf shines, because you can use CON to dmg, so there isn't a major DPS sacrifice
  • most effects used to boost STR very high also boost CON
  • Dwarven CON to dmg entails using GreatAxes only, which don't have the best crit profile
Off the top of my head, and in very broad terms, for FB:
  • no Visage, so STR rather than CON would seem the preferable choice
  • HOrc is a potentially strong racial choice
  • not restricted to GreatAxes, so I'd def use Falchions for their amazing crit profile
  • you could go SWF with Handaxes (some bard splashed, for swashbuckler crit range), as the key attraction of FB T5 is +2 crit multiplier
What's the approach you took to your FB?
it was damage damage damage

falchions with the crit multi - im not on the build rn so i cant check i think i was 15-20 x5

really high str

increased weapon damage from cracking attack and hurting in t5
i also took stunning blow - with the high str you get ok tactics and i sit at 230% strikethrough its fun to stun 4 mobs!
horc does add straight up damage from racial

the bad -

the self heals
i am mostly limited to the rage heal from fury. its nice but not the greatest
 
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