Kali's Dark Hunter Tempest TWF DEX Melee DPS build

[Kalibano]

Hi just a suggestion re destinies and elic strikes.

On my assassin anyway I decided that the SD strike was too clumsy to use but like you I wanted Dark Imbuent as it is like a mini epic moment (of the tree anyway) and has some nice elements relating to sneak damage that seem to be more than what appears in the log.

So I use the stealth leap ‘From the Shadows’ which gives you the 10sec of Dark Imbuement. Then you can use adrenaline as your epic strike.

My technique is sneaking as an assassin then—>from shadows—>assassinate—>adrenaline—>rapid slash (vistani). Since rapid slash does not break stealth, the toon is still hidden and can explode into another attack if needed.

Hi @saekee

Thanks a bunch for contributing with a great suggestion

This is a strategy I am familiar with and use on another build: Spellsinger Inquisitive ranged/caster hybrid.
There's a similar combo with Hunter's End (which, as you probably know, is kind of the same as Adrenaline).

It works well with that build because:

> that alt is ranged, so the 'leap' feels more manageable, as she is often attacking from a distance​

​

> when I do have agro, she has 2 copies of Diplomacy available (which she actively uses for buffs anyway), not to mention the invisibility spell + CC spells, which means she gets to manage going into sneak mode (to leap again) more easily in general​

​

> the total amount of SA die she reaches is far lower than this Dark Hunter build, so I personally see it more like a bit of 'burst damage', and it doesn't feel like a major loss when I don't manage to squeeze 'From the Shadows' in my normal rotation (which despite having quite a few things such as Mass Hold, Weird, Greater Color Spray, etc., it is definitely not as 'click-heavy' as the Dark Hunter!)​

---

I must say I have not had a particularly positive experience using that combo with the Dark Hunter build in particular, for a few reasons:

​

> perhaps the most significant is how 'click heavy' this build is, with a large number of abilities that trigger short buffs and require 'keeping up'. The ones I consider most important are:​

• Dance of Death (triggers AoE attacks, for 10s, every 15s)
• A Thousand Cuts (large buff to Doublestrike + Melee Power, for 15s, every 90s)
• The Growing Storm (incrementally increases damage during 15s, every 30s)
• Elaborate Parry (increases survival, which ensures DPS can happen, for 18s every 90s)
• Know the Angles (increases damage and tactical DCs, for 30s every 30s as Cdw is 20s)
• Smoke Bomb (triggers a large amount of extra SA die, for 10s, every 60s)
• Smoke Trap (Sneak immunity strip + fort de-buff, lasts 25s, but can use every 12s on different targets)
• The Great Leveler + Snap Trap (CC attacks, which increase survival, so DPS can happen)
• Haste Boost (limited by max charges, but used often enough to add to the 'click heavy' feeling)
• Other attacks I like using in my rotation: Whirlwind, Tendon Cut, Trip (extra dmg from FotW C4), Primal Scream

> sneaking in combat to do the leap (on a build that does not normally sneak like an assassin rogue) is not always easy because of agro: as I am sure you are aware of, you just can't stay in sneak mode if someone is agroed on you (you auto stand up again), so it can feel like a lot of manoeuvring, invis scroll casting, and stepping away a bit just to sneak and trigger the ability, which is not fluid at all.​

​

> the 'leap' moves the character quite a distance, and is tricky to manage on many occasions (I ended up in the lava so many times in THTH lol). Running/tumbling back, or using another ability to return to combat (e.g. FotW 'Fast and Furious) feels like a DPS loss, especially as it wastes some of the super short 10s duration of the buff triggered by the leap​

​

> doing the leap prior to combat (as a way to enter it) is an alternative I tried to make it work, but it generally meant that I would only get one use (which again felt like wasting all that extra dmg from SD epic strike), as I quickly got consumed by all the other clicks above in my rotation (which included an extra two attacks):​

Adrenaline, which is even more annoying because it requires clicking every 8 seconds,​

immediately followed by FoTW 'fast and Furious, for the 'super dmg combo' with extra crit multiplier​

All in all it felt super clunky and annoying to manage.

I don't care about the 'meta', so taking that aside, even if the set up I have here ends up being less DPS in general, it feels nicer and far more manageable and fluid. The way I see it: yes, there are less large bursts of dmg, but there is a VERY nice amount of dmg dished out on every single attack for 10s every 15s (including the benefits from 'Improved Meld', which are great!).

To me, fun always takes the highest priority: whatever I do, whichever the build, it needs to feel fluid and fun to play, and not a like a chore. The build, as per the main post, suits my playstyle perfectly.

---

I am grateful for your suggestion here, as it provides options to anyone who visits and explores what works well for their playstyle, so thanks again!

 

[syrrys]

Great detail and thought in to this. I have been trying to find a high Reaper viable Dark Hunter build and this looks great. Quick question, why the Assisinate DCs? What do those help with?

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Great detail and thought in to this. I have been trying to find a high Reaper viable Dark Hunter build and this looks great. Quick question, why the Assisinate DCs? What do those help with?

With Shadowstrike.

 

[Hobgoblin]

With Shadowstrike.

and the dh assassinate thingee. not sure if he takes that though

 

[Hobgoblin]

also, i dont like missing all the damage from the tempest tree the whole line

 

[Kalibano]

Great detail and thought in to this. I have been trying to find a high Reaper viable Dark Hunter build and this looks great.

Hey there, and thanks for the compliment! Hope the build works out well for you if you decide to give it a go. I play all my builds I posted in my repository in reapers 6-10.

Quick question, why the Assisinate DCs? What do those help with?

Happy to clarify:

Assassinate DCs help mostly with 3 key things:

1. Dark Hunter's 'Smoke Trap [C2]': If they fail a Fortitude save (DC20 + Dex/Int/Wis Mod + Assassinate DCs + Trap DCs) they lose their immunity to sneak attack and 25% of their fortification for 25 seconds.
2. Dark Hunter's 'Snap Trap [T3]': Toss a snapping trap at the targeted enemy. If they don't make a Fortitude Save (DC20 + Dex/Int/Wis Mod + Assassinate DCs + Bonus Trap DCs) they are rooted in place by the trap's jaws for 12 seconds. Cooldown: 12 seconds.
3. Shadowdancer's 'Shadowstrike [T2]': Enemy must make a Fortitude save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 15 seconds. Shadow Loss: You have -5 PRR, MRR, and Spell Resistance.

To me, there are worth the investment, especially since I go T4 in Shadowdancer and use its Epic strike exclusively. You might want to play around with it and see if it suits your playstyle, or if you would rather not invest in it at all.

Hope this was helpful!

 

[Kalibano]

also, i dont like missing all the damage from the tempest tree the whole line

Thanks for your input.

I do prefer the defensiveness I get from the points I invest in the Tempest tree: it's a personal choice. I don't like playing glass cannons, so it suits my playstyle perfectly. Those who want 'all damage' can simply adjust the build to take the damage line.

All my melee builds invest in some defensiveness, as I outlined in this thread. The new extreme challenge dungeons have shaken-up (even if ever so slightly') the melee DPS 'meta', and is likely to make some people re-consider the viability of glass cannons, and consider adding some forms of defensiveness to their builds.

Note: past lives add a very large amount of free passive defensiveness. Characters who don't have this available to them (which is who my build threads are aimed for) greatly benefit from investing in defensiveness elsewhere. Soul stones do zero dps.

 

[Hobgoblin]

ok getting more into this - and im not tearing down the build just things i saw...

more of a nit pick - but spending 4 points in dex gives you 1 damage. spending them in the damage gives you 2 damage for the same point spread. but also less reflex saves

the points in welf are only for the rap tomes right?

looking into seeing if you can go falconry and get sprint boost favored enemy animals and quality hp and wis trance

be easy if you didnt have the dh tree... also while i agree on the defenses - what is your max dex bonus? if its capped you can go less points in that line for damage.

its kinda a fine line - soul stones deal no dps, but if you take too long to kill a mob then you wind up with yourself as a soulstone

 

[Kalibano]

ok getting more into this - and im not tearing down the build just things i saw...

Sure thing: constructive criticisms and suggestions are always welcome I welcome friendly discussions in my threads: some may lead to both parties simply agreeing to disagreeing, which is absolutely fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion after all!

more of a nit pick - but spending 4 points in dex gives you 1 damage. spending them in the damage gives you 2 damage for the same point spread. but also less reflex saves

Thanks for the input. If what I wanted to go for was all dmg, the 4APs could perhaps go towards the damage line, to net +2 hit & dmg. I am, however, sacrificing some hit and damage in favour of:

> reflex saves, as you pointed out​

> tactical DCs, which affect 4 key abilities:​

> FotW's 'The Great Leveler [T5]'​

> Shadowdancer's 'Shadowstrike [T2]'​

> Dark Hunter's 'Smoke trap [C2]' + 'Snap Trap [T3]'​

I personally find the trade-off of -1 hit + dmg for the above worth doing.

the points in welf are only for the rap tomes right?

That's correct: I have +2 racial tomes on all my characters, but the vast majority have little to no racial past lives.

looking into seeing if you can go falconry and get sprint boost favored enemy animals and quality hp and wis trance

be easy if you didnt have the dh tree...

At some point in my original planning I had strongly considered going WIS based with falconry. However, T4 Falconry requires a lot of AP investment, and it would mean giving up on somethings from Tempest and/or Dark Hunter.

There's nothing I would be willing to give up from Tempest: it's a very strong tree. Also, 'Elaborate Parry', which gives an amazing defensive boost, is DEX-based, and would be mediocre on a WIS based build.

Dark Hunter tree offers a lot more than it is seen at first glance:

> Extra Sneak attack die​

> Sneak damage immunity strip​

> Opportune Moment [C4] is just too powerful to give up: it requires at least 21 points spent + 2 extra for Smoke Bomb (which is what makes Opportune Moment work). It synergises very strongly with Shadowdancer's 'Shadowstrike' + 'Dark Imbuement'.​

> And if you spend 20 points in DH (which unlocks tier 4), it feels natural picking up:​

> 'Slayer in the Dark' for extra damage​

> 'Lupine instincts', to me personally, is essential if you want to make the trapping aspect of the build work (primal bonus to search and disable). There's the added benefit of the wolf finding traps too​

All in all, there's at least 25 APs from DH that I would not be willing to give up either.

So DEX-based I went, and there's a ton of synergy. WIS based would work too, for sure, but less synergistic overall, so I chose not to.

also while i agree on the defenses - what is your max dex bonus? if its capped you can go less points in that line for damage.

From my build:

> Light armor for higher dodge chance + evasion​

> Max DEX bonus to armor: = 35 / Dodge cap = 30%​

Thanks for this suggestion. Something to consider about Tempest's 'Improved parry [T3]': it raises both Max Dodge cap and Max DEX bonus, so un-training it means reducing my Max Dodge chance , which for me, is highly undesirable.

its kinda a fine line - soul stones deal no dps, but if you take too long to kill a mob then you wind up with yourself as a soulstone

Fair point, for sure. My personal defensiveness strategy, however, does not involve only increasing pure defenses such as HPs, Dodge and PRR. It also involves investing in Tactical DCs, so an enemy can be CCed (which prevents you from becoming a soul stone) and made helpless (which increases your DPS). This is particularly important for solo play, but tbh, I use CC a lot, even in groups where there is a CC caster locking some mobs in place.

This synergises with my choice of 2 DEX (4 APS) vs +2 hit & dmg (4 APs)

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I do appreciate you taking time to respond with further comments and suggestions, and hope my responses made sense.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Sure thing: constructive criticisms and suggestions are always welcome I welcome friendly discussions in my threads: some may lead to both parties simply agreeing to disagreeing, which is absolutely fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion after all!


Thanks for the input. If what I wanted to go for was all dmg, the 4APs could perhaps go towards the damage line, to net +2 hit & dmg. I am, however, sacrificing some hit and damage in favour of:

> reflex saves, as you pointed out​

> tactical DCs, which affect 4 key abilities:​

> FotW's 'The Great Leveler [T5]'​

> Shadowdancer's 'Shadowstrike [T2]'​

> Dark Hunter's 'Smoke trap [C2]' + 'Snap Trap [T3]'​

I personally find the trade-off of -1 hit + dmg for the above worth doing.


That's correct: I have +2 racial tomes on all my characters, and the vast majority have little to no racial past lives.


At some point in my original planning I had strongly considered going WIS based with falconry. However, T4 Falconry requires a lot of AP investment, and it would mean giving up on somethings from Tempest and/or Dark Hunter.

There's nothing I would be willing to give up from Tempest: it's a very strong tree. Also, 'Elaborate Parry', which gives an amazing defensive boost, is DEX-based, and would be mediocre on a WIS based build.

Dark Hunter tree offers a lot more than it is seen at first glance:

> Extra Sneak attack die​

> Sneak damage immunity strip​

> Opportune Moment [C4] is just too powerful to give up: it requires at least 21 points spent + 2 extra for Smoke Bomb (which is what makes Opportune Moment work). It synergises very strongly with Shadowdancer's 'Shadowstrike' + 'Dark Imbuement'.​

> And if you spend 20 points in DH (which unlocks tier 4), it feels natural picking up:​

> 'Slayer in the Dark' for extra damage​

> 'Lupine instincts', to me personally, is essential if you want to make the trapping aspect of the build work (primal bonus to search and disable). There's the added benefit of the wolf finding traps too​

All in all, there's at least 25 APs from DH that I would not be willing to give up either.

So DEX-based I went, and there's a ton of synergy. WIS based would work too, for sure, but less synergistic overall, so I chose not to.


From my build:

> Light armor for higher dodge chance + evasion​

> Max DEX bonus to armor: = 35 / Dodge cap = 30%​

Thanks for this suggestion. Something to consider about Tempest's 'Improved parry [T3]': it raises both Max Dodge cap and Max DEX bonus, so un-training it means reducing my Max Dodge chance , which for me, is highly undesirable.


Fair point, for sure. My personal defensiveness strategy, however, does not involve only increasing pure defenses such as HPs, Dodge and PRR. It also involves investing in Tactical DCs, so an enemy can be CCed (which prevents you from becoming a soul stone) and made helpless (which increases your DPS). This is particularly important for solo play, but tbh, I use CC a lot, even in groups where there is a CC caster locking some mobs in place.

This synergises with my choice of 2 DEX (4 APS) vs +2 hit & dmg (4 APs)

---

I do appreciate you taking time to respond with further comments and suggestions, and hope my responses made sense.

like i said - if the dodge and max dex are already maxed then can go with damage. i have been playing in your build and i cant justify taking enough out of dh without taking it all out


one more minor point is dws - dont sleep on it. level 6 core is a beast for damage. and turns then for sneak

 

[Kalibano]

like i said - if the dodge and max dex are already maxed then can go with damage.

Just to clarify what I meant ref Tempest's 'Improved Parry [T3]':

Dodge is caped by Max Dexterity bonus.​

Max Dexterity bonus is capped by Maximum Dodge chance/cap.​

​

I have:​

25 Dodge​

35 Maximun Dexterity Bonus​

30 Maximum Dodge chance/cap​

So the real cap here is 30 Maximum Dodge chance/cap.
Un-training Tempest's 'Improved Parry [T3]' would mean losing 3 Maximum Dodge chance/cap, (not just 3 Maximum Dexterity Bonus). If it was just the Max Dexterity bonus, then it would be worth dropping it, because it is currently capped by the Maximum Dodge chance/cap.

That is not what I desire: if anything, what would be desirable is to raise Maximum Dodge chance/cap by an extra 5, so I can take full advantage of my Max DEX bonus. I would then need a bit more dodge, and without an insightful item, the other place to get it is from the reaper tree (which only works in reaper mode, sure, but that's the mode I play 99% of the time).

one more minor point is dws - dont sleep on it. level 6 core is a beast for damage. and turns then for sneak

Absolutely, it's an amazing ability. This build was Tempest/DWS prior to Dark Hunter being released, and I really miss that ability. I just don't have enough APs to get there.

What would you suggest dropping in favour of getting it?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Just to clarify what I meant ref Tempest's 'Improved Parry [T3]':

Dodge is caped by Max Dexterity bonus.​

Max Dexterity bonus is capped by Maximum Dodge chance/cap.​

​

I have:​

25 Dodge​

35 Maximun Dexterity Bonus​

30 Maximum Dodge chance/cap​

So the real cap here is 30 Maximum Dodge chance/cap.
Un-training Tempest's 'Improved Parry [T3]' would mean losing 3 Maximum Dodge chance/cap, (not just 3 Maximum Dexterity Bonus). If it was just the Max Dexterity bonus, then it would be worth dropping it, because it is currently capped by the Maximum Dodge chance/cap.

That is not what I desire: if anything, what would be desirable is to raise Maximum Dodge chance/cap by an extra 5, so I can take full advantage of my Max DEX bonus. I would then need a bit more dodge, and without an insightful item, the other place to get it is from the reaper tree (which only works in reaper mode, sure, but that's the mode I play 99% of the time).


Absolutely, it's an amazing ability. This build was Tempest/DWS prior to Dark Hunter being released, and I really miss that ability. I just don't have enough APs to get there.

What would you suggest dropping in favour of getting it?

ugh this is hard.

what i did was change some of the dh line. i also got rid of harper entirely.

i took dh down to 17 points. you lose smoke bomb in t4 which hurts my soul i then took those points and went into walker. i had enough to get the 1 min dex trance and picked up some hp

 

[Hobgoblin]

sorry trying to figure out how to put the build link in the forums like u did

 

[Kalibano]

what i did was change some of the dh line. i also got rid of harper entirely.

i took dh down to 17 points. you lose smoke bomb in t4 which hurts my soul i then took those points and went into walker. i had enough to get the 1 min dex trance and picked up some hp

I see. Though HW's trance is stronger than Harper's on a DEX build like mine, with only 17 APs spent in DH you miss out on DH's core 4, which is very powerful for this build.

You are basically missing out on a huge 20 SA die, which represents a loss of:

> 20 SA die dmg (for 10s every 60s) on each attack that qualify as a sneak attack, which is pretty often, since it works on anything that:​

> is CCed (by you or a caster in your group)​

> a tank, or anyone else, has agro of​

> is under the effect of Shadowdancer's 'Bring darkness [T4]'​

> is blinded by Shadowdancer's 'Dark Imbuement' (or by others who use falconry attacks, which are frequent particularly w monks)​

​

> an extra 20 die of force dmg (for 10s every 15s) on every single attack you make while under the effects of Dark imbuement​

Smoke bomb is only a major loss if you have the core 4 ability (which is not your case, since you only spend 17 APs, and core 4 requires min 21 APs). Without it, it's just a very short invisibility that breaks on attacking, which can easily be replaced by invisibility scrolls/potions.

Personally, I don't think HW trance is worth such a high price to pay.
INT is useful for this build for traps, so it's the SA die above + Harper trance vs just HW trance.

It's your choice ofc, just sharing some thoughts

 

[tertriary]

Hey, would it be worth it to divert some points to take Called Shot / Exposing Strike from the Deepwood Stalker tree before you have Shadowdancer's Bring Darkness available (and then respec and reassign once you do)? Seems like a waste to skip that during leveling, with how reliable it makes Sneak Attack. How would you go about doing this, if you did?

 

[Kalibano]

Hey, would it be worth it to divert some points to take Called Shot / Exposing Strike from the Deepwood Stalker tree before you have Shadowdancer's Bring Darkness available (and then respec and reassign once you do)? Seems like a waste to skip that during leveling, with how reliable it makes Sneak Attack. How would you go about doing this, if you did?

I re-specced this from a regular ranger Tempest/DWS via a lesser heart, when DH was released.

It does seem worth doing it: perhaps not going Harper until the respec? I find heavy investment in DCs is often most needed at endgame, rather than during levelling.

Equipping items that give insightful bonus to dmg should help lessen that specific loss.

 

[Kalibano]

More stat breakdowns were added.

Enjoy!

 

[Scrag]

Where exactly do you get "trap dc" numbers from? There are +trap dc enhs in dh tree, but thats 3 points... Where do you get _A lot_ of trap dc bonuses?

 

[Kalibano]

Where exactly do you get "trap dc" numbers from? There are +trap dc enhs in dh tree, but thats 3 points... Where do you get _A lot_ of trap dc bonuses?

Hey Scrag,

Initially I assumed this would be raised by having disable device bonuses (e.g. competence), so I tested by slotting an augment.
I then reported it as a possible bug, and Tonquin alluded to it being an 'uncommon' bonus which is found in some heroic trees:

I can't think of other sources for it to be honest: it seems it's just a small +3 boost to the formula as it currently stands.

 

[Scrag]

Ok, figured as much. But as a whole, what dictates your trap dc? Your int on creating a trap?